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Colin
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Unit: PCR-CA-334

cac
« on: October 31, 2018, 05:00:36 PM »

hi i am a cadet airman does anyone know who the cadet advisory council people are for my squadron wing and region and nationally?  i see someone with a blue cord here but i dont know what it means or if he is supposed to wear it thanks
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 05:04:35 PM »

Blue is Region.

CAPM 39-1, Page: 102
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
9.3.1. Cadet Advisory Council. Current, primary members of the cadet advisory council at each
echelon may wear shoulder cords in the following colors:

9.3.1.1. Gold – primary members of the National Cadet Advisory Council (CAC),
9.3.1.2. Blue – primary members of Region CACs,
9.3.1.3. Red – primary members of Wing CACs, and
9.3.1.4. Kelly Green – primary members of group CACs.


http://cawgcadets.org/wp/?page_id=2022

https://www.facebook.com/capncac/
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 09:56:30 AM »

As stated, blue is Region. He/she is either a Region CAC officer or Primary representative.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 10:00:10 AM »

Only the primary representative at each echelon wears a cord, not the rest of the council.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 11:44:36 AM »

hi i am a cadet airman does anyone know who the cadet advisory council people are for my squadron wing and region and nationally?  i see someone with a blue cord here but i dont know what it means or if he is supposed to wear it thanks

These aren't names most people on here will know.

These aren't names people should be sharing on a public social media forum.

Why don't you ask the person at your unit who's wearing the blue cord?
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 12:12:33 PM »

hi i am a cadet airman does anyone know who the cadet advisory council people are for my squadron wing and region and nationally?  i see someone with a blue cord here but i dont know what it means or if he is supposed to wear it thanks

These aren't names most people on here will know.

These aren't names people should be sharing on a public social media forum.

Why don't you ask the person at your unit who's wearing the blue cord?

Agreed.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 12:22:27 PM »

Why would the names of CAC members be secret.  CAWG posts them as is indicated in the link provided.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 12:37:32 PM »

Even if the names of CAC members should not be a secret, asking for their names in this forum is the last step anyone should take.

1) There are many hundreds of CAC members all through the US.
2) There is an easier way. As it was suggested by another member, asking their Chain of Command. Going to the Group or Wing online info.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 12:42:16 PM »

Even if the names of CAC members should not be a secret, asking for their names in this forum is the last step anyone should take.

Can't argue that. It must be a symptom of the use of Social Commercial media that it seems easier
to ask questions here (or similar) then just to ask the local staff.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2018, 01:43:02 PM »

Agreed. The cadet could ask his chain of command, or even go to his WCAC meeting. That's a shocking thought...
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i_am_a_politician
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 03:09:18 PM »

Only the primary representative at each echelon wears a cord, not the rest of the council.

Actually, I believe they changed it to allow officers and reps to wear them in the latest version of CAPR 60-1.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2018, 03:27:44 PM »

Interesting - another place one reg argues with another.
CAPR 60-1, Page 34
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_601__Cadet_Program_Management__36D2A228D5925.pdf

"7.7. Awards. During their term of office, primary representatives and CAC officers may wear a shoulder
cord (see Table 7.1). Shoulder cords must be of the same style and shade as that stocked for CAP by
Vanguard. Upon successful completion of their term of office, primary representatives and CAC officers
may wear the CAC ribbon, with the echelon commander’s approval."

Of course 39-1 asserts that it is the sole authority on uniform wear, so...    ::)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 03:32:33 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Capmonkey
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2018, 03:44:43 PM »

 :clap:
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i_am_a_politician
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »

Interesting - another place one reg argues with another.
CAPR 60-1, Page 34
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_601__Cadet_Program_Management__36D2A228D5925.pdf

"7.7. Awards. During their term of office, primary representatives and CAC officers may wear a shoulder
cord (see Table 7.1). Shoulder cords must be of the same style and shade as that stocked for CAP by
Vanguard. Upon successful completion of their term of office, primary representatives and CAC officers
may wear the CAC ribbon, with the echelon commander’s approval."

Of course 39-1 asserts that it is the sole authority on uniform wear, so...    ::)

If I may, I read that "primary members" may wear it, which includes officers since they are members (unless you have assistant recorders/vice chairs, who do not wear any cords at all).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2018, 09:10:22 PM »

As written, that sentence serves only to confuse, and doesn't change anything from 39-1.

An echelon can only appoint one (1) "primary" representative, and only the primaries
can serve in the various positions a CAC would have, regardless of echelon, so there are no
"officers" (i.e. CAC staff jobs) that aren't also the primary from a respective unit or echelon.

CAPR 60-1 is clear that Assistant Reps' only function is to serve in the stead of an absent primary.

So there's no change, just a clunky sentence that should have been reviewed before publication.
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jeders
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2018, 09:14:27 PM »

An echelon can only appoint one (1) "primary" representative, and only the primaries
can serve in the various positions a CAC would have, regardless of echelon, so there are no
"officers" (i.e. CAC staff jobs) that aren't also the primary from a respective unit or echelon.

It's not only possible, but preferred (as of the latest 60-1) to have "officers" who are not also serving as representatives at another level.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2018, 09:21:07 PM »

An echelon can only appoint one (1) "primary" representative, and only the primaries
can serve in the various positions a CAC would have, regardless of echelon, so there are no
"officers" (i.e. CAC staff jobs) that aren't also the primary from a respective unit or echelon.

It's not only possible, but preferred (as of the latest 60-1) to have "officers" who are not also serving as representatives at another level.

They can't serve anywhere unless they are the primary from a unit or echelon.
Primaries are already, and the only, CAC cadets who wear a cord.

The verbiage you're referring to instructs that the best practice is to have multiple cadets
serving in various roles instead of doubling up.  IOW, and as written, the Wing chair should not
be the rep for the Region council.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but it does open up more CAC opportunities in theory.

It also doesn't change who wears the cord (or receives the ribbon).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:25:38 PM by Eclipse » Logged


jeders
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2018, 10:25:43 PM »

An echelon can only appoint one (1) "primary" representative, and only the primaries
can serve in the various positions a CAC would have, regardless of echelon, so there are no
"officers" (i.e. CAC staff jobs) that aren't also the primary from a respective unit or echelon.

It's not only possible, but preferred (as of the latest 60-1) to have "officers" who are not also serving as representatives at another level.

They can't serve anywhere unless they are the primary from a unit or echelon.
Primaries are already, and the only, CAC cadets who wear a cord.
As you are so fond of saying, cite please

Quote
The verbiage you're referring to instructs that the best practice is to have multiple cadets
serving in various roles instead of doubling up.  IOW, and as written, the Wing chair should not
be the rep for the Region council.

It also says nothing about requiring the chair, vice-chair, or recorder to otherwise be representatives. In fact, the NCAC chair and vice chair are open to any and all Eaker recipients who will not be 21 before the end of the term. IOW, the wing chair need not be a rep from the group/squadron level.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2018, 11:19:47 PM »

You can't serve on a CAC, at any level, without being an approved rep to that level, even NHQ.

There are only "primaries" and "assistants" - no ad hoc participation.

Primary reps are already allowed to wear the cord of their level, regardless of whether they
hold an office on that respective CAC.

Assistant reps, per 60-1, have no function except to fill-in when the primary cannot participate.

"7.3.4. Role of Assistant Representatives. Assistant representatives have no vote, unless the primary
representative is absent. Assistants should participate in all CAC meetings, if feasible."


Ergo, the only cadets eligible to be a "CAC Officer" (Chair, Vice, Recorder), are already wearing cords.

And no, assistant reps can't be s/elected as the Chair, Vice-Chair or Recorder, that would be ridiculous.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 12:04:03 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Capmonkey
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2018, 08:58:38 AM »

And no, assistant reps can't be s/elected as the Chair, Vice-Chair or Recorder, that would be ridiculous.

Says who? It happens all the time. NCAC even allows assistant representatives to hold positions. For example, the Recorder for this term is an ASSISTANT. Respectfully, you may wanna check this fact/opinion.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2018, 09:07:39 AM »

Why on Earth would an assistant rep be s/elected as a CAC Officer
over a primary?
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jeders
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2018, 09:16:15 AM »

You can't serve on a CAC, at any level, without being an approved rep to that level, even NHQ.

There are only "primaries" and "assistants" - no ad hoc participation.

Primary reps are already allowed to wear the cord of their level, regardless of whether they
hold an office on that respective CAC.

Assistant reps, per 60-1, have no function except to fill-in when the primary cannot participate.

"7.3.4. Role of Assistant Representatives. Assistant representatives have no vote, unless the primary
representative is absent. Assistants should participate in all CAC meetings, if feasible."


Ergo, the only cadets eligible to be a "CAC Officer" (Chair, Vice, Recorder), are already wearing cords.

And no, assistant reps can't be s/elected as the Chair, Vice-Chair or Recorder, that would be ridiculous.

You keep saying these things, but you don't back any of it up with regulatory cites; so again, cite please.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2018, 09:32:56 AM »

You can't serve on a CAC, at any level, without being an approved rep to that level, even NHQ.

There are only "primaries" and "assistants" - no ad hoc participation.

Primary reps are already allowed to wear the cord of their level, regardless of whether they
hold an office on that respective CAC.

Assistant reps, per 60-1, have no function except to fill-in when the primary cannot participate.

"7.3.4. Role of Assistant Representatives. Assistant representatives have no vote, unless the primary
representative is absent. Assistants should participate in all CAC meetings, if feasible."


Ergo, the only cadets eligible to be a "CAC Officer" (Chair, Vice, Recorder), are already wearing cords.

And no, assistant reps can't be s/elected as the Chair, Vice-Chair or Recorder, that would be ridiculous.

You keep saying these things, but you don't back any of it up with regulatory cites; so again, cite please.


CAPR 52-19, CAC Guide:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P052_019_1584425C1735C.pdf

Page 9
Primary Representatives
  • Represents the perspective and best interests of the cadets in their home echelon;
  • Regularly attends all CAC meetings; if unable to attend, coordinates with the assistant representative and the chair;
  • Keeps cadets in home echelon informed of CAC activities.

Assistant Representatives
  • Same as primary representative; attends as many CAC meetings as logistically feasible;
  • Participates in votes, when the primary representative is absent.


NOTE: CAPP 52-19 is outdated and intended to be replaced with CAPP 60-34 (yet to be released).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2018, 09:55:22 AM »

^^ Thank you.

Further to this, and I will grant that "logic" isn't always applicable to CAP regs, especially in cases like this, but...

You can't be an "assistant" if there isn't a primary also appointed (what cadet would allow himself to be appointed
as an assistant rep, do the work, and not earn the dec (leaving the cord conflict aside)?  Makes no sense.

If the cadets appointed as primaries can't or won't be s/elected to be one of the 3 required CAC offices,
why would they not be replaced?

Are you saying a non-voting assistant could be s/elected as the Chair or Vice? That's not how it works and makes no sense.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 10:17:05 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Eclipse
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2018, 10:09:54 AM »

Also, the NCAC may be an anomaly in itself, since the most recent photo shows at least five (5) cadets wearing
a gold cord, so either they are all primaries, which makes sense, or...reasons?



Then on Facebook they are showing nine (9) cadets wearing gold and one with blue.
Presumably the blue cadet is a region assistance, but 9?  They can't all be primaries, and
there's only three CAC officers...

« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 10:25:06 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Capmonkey
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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2018, 10:38:35 AM »

As I was there, I can clear this up. The cadet in the blue cord is an assistant for his region, as the primary could not attend. The Recorder could not attend as well. There are 10 cadets total in the photo, representatives from all 8 regions (gold cords) and the Chair and Vice Chair. So to clear it up, there are EIGHT ( 8 ) cadets wearing gold cords, and one wearing blue.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »

I count nine (9) gold cords.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2018, 11:00:45 AM »

I didn't count the Vice Chair, but still. Primaries wear the gold cords, and so do the officers. Nothing about this changes the matter. Assistants can do as much work as Primaries, and shouldn't be restricted from running for positions. I think that's just a disgrace if they are.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2018, 11:01:20 AM »

So do I.


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Capmonkey
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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2018, 11:02:31 AM »

8 region primaries, 2 officers=10 cadets... 1 being Assistant=9/10 with gold cords. There's the math.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2018, 11:08:17 AM »

Assistants can do as much work as Primaries, and shouldn't be restricted from running for positions. I think that's just a disgrace if they are.

Regardless of what CACs may be doing, that't clearly not the case in regards to who the regs and pamphlets are written.
If the intention was to make the Assistants fully-participate, they'd earn a ribbon at least.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2018, 11:08:52 AM »

8 region primaries, 2 officers=10 cadets... 1 being Assistant=9/10 with gold cords. There's the math.

Where do the two officers come from if not the primary pool?
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2018, 11:16:55 AM »

National HQ opens applications, and all Eaker Recipients who can serve a full term before they turn 21 are eligible to apply. Then the NATIONAL Commander appoints them. No where in the application process does it say that you must be a representative to run for an officer position. It's even written in the Bylaws for NCAC that you can be an assistant and run for positions. And assistants earning the ribbon has been talked about recently, FYI.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2018, 11:18:30 AM »

National HQ opens applications, and all Eaker Recipients who can serve a full term before they turn 21 are eligible to apply. Then the NATIONAL Commander appoints them. No where in the application process does it say that you must be a representative to run for an officer position. It's even written in the Bylaws for NCAC that you can be an assistant and run for positions. And assistants earning the ribbon has been talked about recently, FYI.

Fair enough, however I've already allowed that the NCAC seems to operate as its own thing, with for starters
any cadet being allowed to apply, regardless of being on another CAC.

That's not the case for the rest of them.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2018, 11:36:15 AM »

NCAC is not their "own" thing. We function under CAPR 60-1, Chapter 7, CAPP 52-19, and the soon to be new CAC guide, as every CAC in group, wing, region does. As stated in the Constitution and Bylaws of National CAC, the objects and purposes of the National CAC shall be: Provide an organization where cadets gain leadership experience and opportunities at higher organizational levels, Provide HQ CAP, the National Cadet Programs Committee, and the NATIONAL COMMANDER insight on Cadet Programs development and implementation, and to make recommendations for improving and managing the Cadet Program and Civil Air Patrol's missions.

For you to say that NCAC does their "own" thing, while we report to the National Commander, we've met with the National Commander and Vice Commander, is completely wrong. You're stating that not all cadets should serve on CAC. CAC is a LEARNING OPPORTUNITY. Every cadet should have the opportunity on every echelon, whether they are a primary or a representative. I'll end my rant now, but respectfully, it seems you're not quite pro-CAC at any echelon, sir.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 11:40:46 AM by Capmonkey » Logged
Eclipse
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2018, 11:49:22 AM »

Whether or not anyone is, or isn't "pro-CAC" hasn't come up in this discussion whatsoever,
you're reading your own assumptions into this.

I, as well as plenty of others, are pro "that makes sense or it doesn't", because when you
have policies, procedures, or programs within CAP that don't make logical sense, there
are moms and cadets who start asking "why".

In this case, the reg for CP directly conflicts with the reg for uniforms.  39-1 says "only primaries".
60-1 says "primaries and officers". 39-1 asserts it is the sole authority for uniform wear (despite the
fact that it clearly isn't).

Assistant reps get neither a cord nor a decoration, but can serve as an "officer"?  That also makes no
sense.

Now, consider that many cadets pursue CAC as another "thing to bling", and you have mom who
wants to know why her cadet didn't get a ribbon or can't wear the cord "like everyone else". Etc., etc..
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 11:52:26 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Capmonkey
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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2018, 11:52:25 AM »

If the cadet is in it for the bling, they are in it for the wrong reasons. Officers should be allowed, as they are now, to wear the cords, because they put more work in than the primaries and alternates combined, because they have to deal with the council, as well as reporting this to the higher echelons. Just my views, but I'll stop talking now.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2018, 11:54:23 AM »

If the cadet is in it for the bling, they are in it for the wrong reasons.

Agreed.  Sadly this is the primary motivator for a lot of CAC cadets.

Officers should be allowed, as they are now, to wear the cords, because they put more work in than the primaries and alternates combined, because they have to deal with the council, as well as reporting this to the higher echelons.

They aren't "alternates", they are assistants, though that term is pretty common.

And again, why would the assistants be holding one of the staff roles instead of a primary?

Where are the primaries?

How does that make any sense?
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2018, 11:57:34 AM »

The assistants are holding one of the staff roles instead of the primary because they were motivated enough to run for the position, and the Council believed in the talents of the individual. It happens all the time. The primaries are still active, functioning as representatives. It makes total sense, when you look at the assistants as motivated cadets, just like all of us. Don't discount assistants, as they are still a significant part of the Council. Just because they can't vote doesn't mean they aren't involved.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2018, 12:07:37 PM »

^ Then they should be getting the dec.

As a CC, if I found out my Primary wasn't motivated enough to run for an office, and
my Assistant was, I'd be making a change in assignments.

Frankly I've never understood why there is any distinction, and that the cords and decs aren't presented to
both.  If they are equal, then why demotivate a cadet to participate.

I don't agree with the assertion you're making, but assuming it's true, that means the primary can
sit back, never show to meetings, and wear the cord and earn the dec, while an assistant goes
to every meeting, works hard, and gets nothing?

How does that math work?  Or is this part and parcel about why there are issues generally with
cadets not being interested in CAC?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 12:13:11 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Capmonkey
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2018, 12:09:48 PM »

So if an assistant is holding the position of recorder, they get the ribbon and the cord. They get the dec. Problem solved. As CC, you're perfectly capable of making your own decisions, and if the CAC finds that the primary isn't active, they can make a recommendation through the Director of Cadet Programs, for the CC to remove the primary. Problem solved for dec, and motivation. Easy. Next.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2018, 12:14:47 PM »

So if an assistant is holding the position of recorder, they get the ribbon and the cord. They get the dec. Problem solved. As CC, you're perfectly capable of making your own decisions, and if the CAC finds that the primary isn't active, they can make a recommendation through the Director of Cadet Programs, for the CC to remove the primary. Problem solved for dec, and motivation. Easy. Next.

As written, there is no means for an assistant rep to earn the dec.

The Dir of Cadet Programs does not appoint unit or group reps, and doesn't have the authority to
replace those cadets.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2018, 12:16:39 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied. And if you would re-read, it says recommendation. The Director/CP can go to the Wing CC, who has the authority to go to the Sq. CC and advise that they remove the rep.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2018, 12:19:46 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied.

So now 60-1 also conflicts with 39-3.  Awesome.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2018, 12:20:59 PM »

So if the chair of CAC is an assistant, they don't get the recognition of an officer? That's not right. If you have concerns, why don't you pass it through the channels and get it changed instead of complaining on here about it?
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Vegas1972
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« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2018, 12:23:38 PM »

If they are filling the position of Recorder, they classify as an officer, and the dec associated with such role is applied.

So now 60-1 also conflicts with 39-3.  Awesome.

and 39-1 for the cords as well...
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2018, 12:25:56 PM »

We can all agree that the assistants don't wear the cords. That's about the only thing we can agree on.
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Vegas1972
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« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2018, 12:27:20 PM »

We can all agree that the assistants don't wear the cords. That's about the only thing we can agree on.

according to 39-1... an officer who's an assistant (which I agree with Eclipse...doesn't make sense) shouldn't have a cord either.
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2018, 12:29:07 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2018, 12:30:19 PM »

So if the chair of CAC is an assistant, they don't get the recognition of an officer? That's not right.

Up until Feb 2018, only the Primary and the chair were awarded ribbons, and the recorder was
not considered a "CAC Officer".

And 39-3 only awarded decs to the primaries - so that has been in conflict for quite a while.

Other then maybe NCAC, I don't think I've ever seen a situation where the chair wasn't the primary,
but for that matter most CACs have enough trouble just getting enough primaries to produce a quorum.

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Vegas1972
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« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2018, 12:30:40 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?


nope...I did not say that at any time.   I said "according to 39-1....shouldn't have a cord"   
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2018, 12:33:32 PM »

I believe that regardless of if the officers are primary or not, they still deserve the dec. Maybe someone, maybe CAC's or the SM's, should look into the conflicting problems, as it seems to be so much of a problem
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Vegas1972
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Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2018, 12:37:59 PM »

So you're saying if an assistant serves as an officer, they don't deserve the dec?

you seem to be getting wrapped around the axle about this point... My post and the way I read Eclipse's posts (and I by no means purport to speak for him)...they were not anti CAC, anti assistant or anti cadet....they were anti CAP having 3 regulatory documents, an outdated pamphlet, and a referenced pamphlet that doesn't exist yet that all contradict one another. 



Personally, I think they should get rid of the primary/assistant deal and have two full equal members from each unit appointed to the next echelon.   
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 12:53:07 PM by Vegas1972 » Logged
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Capmonkey
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« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2018, 12:54:29 PM »

The outdated pamphlet should be going away soon, as the new pamphlet is in CP at HQ. I can agree with taking away the primary/assistant and have them being equal, with the pair only getting one vote, so I agree with that. As for the cords, I won't argue that more, as it's pointless to argue regs. I'm sorry if I've come off as disrespectful in any way.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2018, 01:00:15 PM »

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« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 01:17:42 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
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Eclipse
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« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2018, 01:04:41 PM »

Personally, I think they should get rid of the primary/assistant deal and have two full equal members from each unit appointed to the next echelon.

That doesn't work - their votes could cancel each other out, and units that send two would have advantages over
those that only send one. (Not that it really matters, but from a logic perspective).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2018, 01:08:09 PM »

I'm sorry if I've come off as disrespectful in any way.

I don't see any disrespect. Disagreement does not equal disrespect.

These are legitimate gray areas that in some cases have persisted for years.

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Capmonkey
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« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2018, 01:16:39 PM »

Thanks for understanding, sir. I can agree that in some cases, CAC can be it's own little world, but since I've been in on all echelons, I've tried to make it as good and effective as I can, while following the regs, which can be gray in some instances.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2018, 01:18:12 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?
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C/TSgt Killeen
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Eclipse
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« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2018, 01:23:10 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?

I would say on the mean, yes, but it depends on a lot of factors. 

In smaller units, the Cadet Commander is sometimes the only cadet qualified from an ability / interest perspective, and
in a perfect CAP world CAC reps are supposed to be officers.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2018, 01:23:51 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?

I would say on the mean, yes, but it depends on a lot of factors.  In smaller units, the Cadet Commander
is sometimes the only cadet qualified from an ability / interest perspective, and
in a perfect CAP world CAC reps are supposed to be officers.

What do they look for in a CAC representative?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Eclipse
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« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2018, 01:25:32 PM »

What do they look for in a CAC representative?

Respiration and gravitational attraction in proper proportion.

i.e. Cadets willing to participate.
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PHall
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« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2018, 01:29:34 PM »

Are officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?

That's up to your Squadron and Group Commanders. The Group Commander makes the appointment usually after talking to the Squadron Commanders of the cadets applying for the position.
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Vegas1972
Member

Posts: 65
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2018, 01:58:29 PM »

Personally, I think they should get rid of the primary/assistant deal and have two full equal members from each unit appointed to the next echelon.

That doesn't work - their votes could cancel each other out, and units that send two would have advantages over
those that only send one. (Not that it really matters, but from a logic perspective).

I don't see their votes cancelling each other occasionally as an altogether bad thing.   It's worked (mostly) in the US Senate for a while.   And now the units that send someone have an advantage (I suppose) over units that don't send anyone (or don't have a qualified candidate).  For what its worth, as a CDC, I'd be happier with being able to open a reg and have it read the same as another and be able to apply the rules consistently across the board, whatever the scheme is. 
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Eclipse
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« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2018, 02:03:19 PM »

The above raises the question as to the intention of the body in the first place.

If the intention is a general orientation on parliamentary procedure and committee work,
that's fine, and the cancelling out doesn't really matter, however if the intention is to
actually get some work done, then being able to stack a board or having a unit's reps cancel each
other out is self-defeating.

Again, most of this is all just academic anyway.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2018, 03:58:38 PM »

"The assistants are holding one of the staff roles instead of the primary because they were motivated enough to run for the position..."

If this is the case, make the primary an assistant and the assistant the primary!

Other organizations when faced with a situation like this, elect the officers from the primaries.

We can say the Vice President is an alternate, or we can count him as one. We never see him in the role of the President unless the President is unable to discharge his duties. Therefore the President is the Primary. The VP, willing as he is to discharge the Presidential duties, is not allowed to do so.

CAC should not be different.
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Eagle11
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« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2018, 02:27:07 AM »

As I was there, I can clear this up. The cadet in the blue cord is an assistant for his region, as the primary could not attend. The Recorder could not attend as well. There are 10 cadets total in the photo, representatives from all 8 regions (gold cords) and the Chair and Vice Chair. So to clear it up, there are EIGHT ( 8 ) cadets wearing gold cords, and one wearing blue.

I just wanted to clarify one thing. The Recorder for the NCAC was not invited to attend the first in person NCAC meeting of the 2018 term. They could have attended the in person meeting and in fact they wanted to attend. However they were told that they were not needed for the meeting.
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Capmonkey
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Posts: 107

« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2018, 01:10:33 PM »

As I was there, I can clear this up. The cadet in the blue cord is an assistant for his region, as the primary could not attend. The Recorder could not attend as well. There are 10 cadets total in the photo, representatives from all 8 regions (gold cords) and the Chair and Vice Chair. So to clear it up, there are EIGHT ( 8 ) cadets wearing gold cords, and one wearing blue.

I just wanted to clarify one thing. The Recorder for the NCAC was not invited to attend the first in person NCAC meeting of the 2018 term. They could have attended the in person meeting and in fact they wanted to attend. However they were told that they were not needed for the meeting.

All representatives, both primary and assistant, were invited to attend. Just because it was said that they were not needed does not mean they were not invited. She was still present on conference calls held during the weekend.
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PHall
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Posts: 6,314

« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2018, 02:33:18 PM »

As I was there, I can clear this up. The cadet in the blue cord is an assistant for his region, as the primary could not attend. The Recorder could not attend as well. There are 10 cadets total in the photo, representatives from all 8 regions (gold cords) and the Chair and Vice Chair. So to clear it up, there are EIGHT ( 8 ) cadets wearing gold cords, and one wearing blue.

I just wanted to clarify one thing. The Recorder for the NCAC was not invited to attend the first in person NCAC meeting of the 2018 term. They could have attended the in person meeting and in fact they wanted to attend. However they were told that they were not needed for the meeting.

Why would the Recorder not be needed at the in person meeting? 
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 107

« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2018, 03:31:40 PM »

That was a decision made by the advisors, and the Chair and Vice Chair. Two reps volunteered to take minutes and alternated. We don't know the Recorder's situation. She may have had an event she really needed to go to. Stop speculating, guys. Maxwell is in the past, and NCAC moves on.
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TheSkyHornet
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Posts: 1,529

« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2018, 10:07:44 AM »

Are cadet (FTFY) officers or Cadet Commander more likely to be chosen for Group CAC?

I am generally not supportive of Cadet Commanders being the one on every committee. CAC is a perfect opportunity for a Cadet Commander to encourage others to participate. It's also an opportunity for the CAC member to back-brief the Cadet Commander on discussions held at CAC during cadet staff meetings.

At PHall said, it's the Group Commander's prerogative.
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