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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet Ball
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Author Topic: Cadet Ball  (Read 3839 times)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,338

« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 09:24:17 AM »

...that was a fun time.

It always is, until someone loses an eye...


ProTip - anything that includes the word "grog" is 100% inappropriate for CAP, especially for cadets.


This +1. In my book, this is hazing plain and simple. Making a cadet (or a senior member for that matter) drink some disgusting concoction for some "infraction" deemed by others, all in the name of "fun", is hazing. Even if it appears that the person is going along with it, it is peer pressure for something that serves no purpose in a youth organization at all.

It also normalizes and is an affectation of binge drinking.

#getoffmylawn
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 09:31:04 AM »

Thank y'all for all of the advice, and stories... and I understand the function of CAC as us not being a Activities Committee, but this isn't just our wing. If y'all have a problem with it, it may not be just my wing. Either way, the CAC for our Wing, whether you like it or not, will most likely advise/suggest, otherwise plan the social with the help of Seniors (since cadets are apparently incapable of planning a social by themselves...) At the end of the day, the CAC will do whatever the DCP tells us to do. End of story.

C/Lt. Col Capmokey
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GroundHawg
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 607

« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 09:33:40 AM »

I learned to do the Electric Slide and The Hustle at Wing Conference. I still think of Capt. Holbrook (a state trooper at the time) and laugh at every wedding I go to.

Every female wore a formal dress (mostly their prom dress 2.0) every male broke out their bow ties.

We learned formal dining protocol, which for most of us was a first.

Nerd Prom is about the best description of it that I have ever heard.

Every year when the pictures from it hit our local papers, we would have 20+ new cadet recruits show up the next meeting.

It really is fun if planned and run properly.
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 09:34:46 AM »

My point exactly!
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chuckmilam
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2018, 10:09:51 AM »

WIWAC in WIWG, the Cadet Military Ball was always a fun time and we looked forward to it every year. 

I believe WIWG still successfully puts it on, and so far, no one has lost an eye, as far as I know. 
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2018, 10:12:32 AM »

It looks like the opinion is leading 50/50...
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,571

« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2018, 10:41:29 AM »

Arizona, Iowa, Kansas,  Ohio, Wisconsin, and Tri-Wing have all held Dining Ins at their Encampments which have included grog bowls.

CAPP 4 specifically talks about "wine pouring," which can be substituted with non-alcoholic beverages for cadet activities, and toasting as a function of virtually any Dining In/Out (which could also be perceived as a subjective reference to alcohol consumption). How far does that get taken?

I can see the argument for "humiliating" someone who doesn't wish to participate. And that's something to address, I suppose. But I think it's a stretch to say it's humiliating to voluntarily attend an activity that has a decorum with "rule breaking" protocols if they play along.

Our Wing DCP and I had a good chat about this very subject several months back. I'd like to know what National thinks on the subject. But it looks like NHQ Recruiting and Retention is comfortable with it, granted some level of control over the event exists.

There's been some suggestions thrown around before about making a more structured Dining In pamphlet for units to follow and appropriately execute a Dining In to avoid any controversial conduct.
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2018, 10:47:52 AM »

I can understand that, however, this isn't a dining in, in any sorts. That is saved for the award banquet. This "Cadet Ball" (which seems to be highly controversial), would not include "grog drinks", I mean really?! There would be cadet friendly drinks, for crying out loud, guys, with no toasting. Leave the dining-in for the awards banquet.
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jeders
Global Moderator

Posts: 2,121

« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2018, 11:04:14 AM »

Let me start by saying that having CAC plan this is wrong and it should be bounced back to the conference planning committee; why has already been touched on enough, so moving on.

Having a cadet dance/ball/party at wing conference is a potentially great/terrible idea, it all comes down to execution. The way that it is done in TXWG is that on Friday night, during or right after the wing CC's reception, we hold a cadet ball with music, dancing, food, and cake. The dance is held in the same hotel as the conference (so that handles billeting and venue) and the food is generally provided by the hotel as they are also catering the reception and the awards dinner the following night. Males generally dress in semi-formal uniforms or nice civilian attire while females generally wear a nice dress. There is always senior member supervision (usually at the door to keep anyone from crashing the party), and half way through the night much of the wing CP staff will be joining in on the electric slide or singing "You've Lost that Loving Feeling".

As for the "not knowing people", isn't that kind of the point of a social event, to get to know people outside of your circle. Personally, I'm always amazed at how well cadets know each other, even in a state the size of Texas.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,323

« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2018, 11:08:12 AM »


As for the "not knowing people", isn't that kind of the point of a social event, to get to know people outside of your circle. Personally, I'm always amazed at how well cadets know each other, even in a state the size of Texas.

Facebook and other social media connections. So many will friend Cadets in other squadrons and Cadets they meet at SAREXs and Encampments. They keep up with each other much more so than us Seniors. They have their own social world happening outside of CAP official meetings.
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
chuckmilam
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2018, 11:10:54 AM »

Facebook and other social media connections. So many will friend Cadets in other squadrons and Cadets they meet at SAREXs and Encampments. They keep up with each other much more so than us Seniors.

Social media has been great for reconnecting and keeping in touch with friends I made at encampments almost 30 (yikes!) years ago.  It's one of the main reasons I keep my accounts open despite the otherwise overwhelming toxic political infighting over the last few years. 
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NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,022
Unit: of issue

« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2018, 11:14:02 AM »

It also normalizes and is an affectation of binge drinking.

Punch = Binge drinking? LOL WUT?



You must love those boring rubber chicken "banquets."

Do you need nasty, disgusting grog? No. Absolutely not.  Thats actually quite silly. I've never been a fan. A punch bowl of "grog" thats nothing but punch for infractions? Sure. Done right (and thats a hard part, doing it right and not doing it stupid) its a fun way to enforce the "mess rules".

I went to RSC in 2003 and was appointed as the president of the mess with another guy from my seminar as the vice. The other seminar told the commandant that they weren't going to participate in the dining out because they "didn't want to be made fun of" by our seminar. (again, "wut?" No idea why they thought they were going to be made fun of. They could never explain why they thought that, but thats what they had made up in their heads)

The vice and I sat down with them and assured them that we're not making "fun" of anybody, but there are traditional rules to the mess and things that happen for transgressions to the rules. Its not intended as punitive, its intended in the spirit of camaraderie and fun and fellowship as members of the group. The whole group.

They reluctantly agreed to participate. 15 years later, I'm still kind of shaking my head as to why as a group they were so resistant. It was a very odd conversation to have with a bunch of adults, to be honest. My cadet programs background served me in good stead that day.

The dining out went off without a hitch, the first couple "violators of the mess rules" were from my seminar, so they could see how it was done. (yes, I deliberately had one of my seminar mates break the rules first) The other seminar had a couple of "rule breakers" and the night wound up being a lot of fun. They all came to me and the vice afterwards and apologized for being so resistant and thanked us for allaying their fears and making the evening a LOT more fun than they thought it would be.

Should you have a dining out in every instance? Maybe not. But I've seen it done to great effect at wing & region conferences, and I've even run a couple at my squadron to the point where my squadron's dining out became a defacto "Wing" dining out. :) (benefits of a small wing)

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,022
Unit: of issue

« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2018, 11:18:17 AM »

Our Wing DCP and I had a good chat about this very subject several months back. I'd like to know what National thinks on the subject. But it looks like NHQ Recruiting and Retention is comfortable with it, granted some level of control over the event exists.

Whoa buddy. Slow your roll.  I speak for myself there, not as a representative of NHQ or CAP, Inc. :)

Me saying "I like dining outs" != "Its cool, National is OK with dining outs. Ninness said so!"

Unless I say otherwise, I'm speaking strictly for myself on CAP-Talk and not specifically representing a policy position of National HQ.

Just want to be completely clear there.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 11:20:44 AM »

Let me start by saying that having CAC plan this is wrong and it should be bounced back to the conference planning committee; why has already been touched on enough, so moving on.

Having a cadet dance/ball/party at wing conference is a potentially great/terrible idea, it all comes down to execution. The way that it is done in TXWG is that on Friday night, during or right after the wing CC's reception, we hold a cadet ball with music, dancing, food, and cake. The dance is held in the same hotel as the conference (so that handles billeting and venue) and the food is generally provided by the hotel as they are also catering the reception and the awards dinner the following night. Males generally dress in semi-formal uniforms or nice civilian attire while females generally wear a nice dress. There is always senior member supervision (usually at the door to keep anyone from crashing the party), and half way through the night much of the wing CP staff will be joining in on the electric slide or singing "You've Lost that Loving Feeling".

As for the "not knowing people", isn't that kind of the point of a social event, to get to know people outside of your circle. Personally, I'm always amazed at how well cadets know each other, even in a state the size of Texas.


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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 11:21:38 AM »

Let me start by saying that having CAC plan this is wrong and it should be bounced back to the conference planning committee; why has already been touched on enough, so moving on.

Having a cadet dance/ball/party at wing conference is a potentially great/terrible idea, it all comes down to execution. The way that it is done in TXWG is that on Friday night, during or right after the wing CC's reception, we hold a cadet ball with music, dancing, food, and cake. The dance is held in the same hotel as the conference (so that handles billeting and venue) and the food is generally provided by the hotel as they are also catering the reception and the awards dinner the following night. Males generally dress in semi-formal uniforms or nice civilian attire while females generally wear a nice dress. There is always senior member supervision (usually at the door to keep anyone from crashing the party), and half way through the night much of the wing CP staff will be joining in on the electric slide or singing "You've Lost that Loving Feeling".

As for the "not knowing people", isn't that kind of the point of a social event, to get to know people outside of your circle. Personally, I'm always amazed at how well cadets know each other, even in a state the size of Texas.

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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 11:23:03 AM »

This is my exact intentions, to the tee. My wing has the conference the exact same way yours does, and the planning seems to be the same. It may not be completely right that CAC is planning the social, and maybe I'll be able to change it in the next term as Chairman, but for now, life must go on. Thank you for the great advice, sir. I know a lot of people in Texas Wing with extensive planning of these types of events, and will get advice from people who have been there and done it, on a cadet level. Once again, thanks
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,571

« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2018, 11:34:22 AM »

Our Wing DCP and I had a good chat about this very subject several months back. I'd like to know what National thinks on the subject. But it looks like NHQ Recruiting and Retention is comfortable with it, granted some level of control over the event exists.

Whoa buddy. Slow your roll.  I speak for myself there, not as a representative of NHQ or CAP, Inc. :)

Me saying "I like dining outs" != "Its cool, National is OK with dining outs. Ninness said so!"

Unless I say otherwise, I'm speaking strictly for myself on CAP-Talk and not specifically representing a policy position of National HQ.

Just want to be completely clear there.

Noted entirely. But that does have influence in overall decision making and program suggestions. If NHQ was to ask you for your input, it carries weight.

Zero intention on citing you as the end-all. So excuse any misunderstanding on that.

This is my exact intentions, to the tee. My wing has the conference the exact same way yours does, and the planning seems to be the same. It may not be completely right that CAC is planning the social, and maybe I'll be able to change it in the next term as Chairman, but for now, life must go on. Thank you for the great advice, sir. I know a lot of people in Texas Wing with extensive planning of these types of events, and will get advice from people who have been there and done it, on a cadet level. Once again, thanks

You can also propose the idea of a planning committee to your Wing DCP. As a CAC adviser, that, too, carries weight.

Just be cautious on turning a CAC into an activities committee, whether asked by your Wing or not. CAC is not there as an extension of the Wing DCP to "run cadet activities" hosted at the Wing level. In most cases, there are Planning Officers ("Activities Directors") assigned by Wing to select an activities staff to host the activity.

However it plays out, I hope it goes well. If mil-ball seems like a positive idea, go for it. You might consider making it a dual senior-cadet ball, where seniors are mostly in their own conference room/ballroom with cadets (supervised, of course) in a neighboring/nearby ballroom. It has to have some senior oversight, but avoid throwing cadets and seniors into the same ball together if it's a 'cadet social.'
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »

Absolutely, sir! I completely agree, and will keep this all in mind. I apologize for this "blowing up", and will take everything into account. I sincerely appreciate it.

C/Maj Capmonkey
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,571

« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2018, 11:53:08 AM »

Stop apologizing! It's a web forum dialogue!  8)

This is how you communicate information and ideas.
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Capmonkey
Forum Regular

Posts: 118

« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2018, 11:56:15 AM »

Understood. Thanks again!
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Cadet Ball
 


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