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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: 00013 Course - Aka ECI-13 Sanity Check
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SeattleSarge
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Seattle Squadron
« on: July 04, 2007, 05:27:58 AM »

Didn't I read somewhere that after the introduction of the new Level 1 course, "CAP Foundations", that the 00013 correspondence course was going away?

Many elements of that course appear to be addressed in "CAP Foundations".

How about a sanity check.

-SeattleSarge
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Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
Public Affairs - Mission Aircrewman
Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
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captrncap
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2007, 05:48:30 AM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.
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Pumbaa
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 09:54:21 AM »

Yes you are correct.  AF is not going to administer them I beleive starting in August  or September.  Basically CAP needs to get on the ball and use online courses.  So if you have not completed them by August or so, then you are SOL.

I still wonder why people laugh at me when I say Al Gore is Vice President.. I mean the 13 says so!  It must be true!!
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spaatzmom
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2007, 01:16:25 PM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2007, 03:41:52 PM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.

Me, too.  Please.

What I am aware of is that certain course offered through AFIDL, the Senior Officers Course included, will now need to be proctored at a military base or similiar, by the State Dir, or 2+ Wing staff designnates (or something to that effect).

I haven't heard or seen anything about eliminating the 13 for UCC, which I would be against.  These are two separate things within CAP, and with the UCC being offered sporadically, would / could become a huge impediment to progression.
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DeputyDog
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2007, 04:04:30 PM »

What I am aware of is that certain course offered through AFIDL, the Senior Officers Course included, will now need to be proctored at a military base or similiar, by the State Dir, or 2+ Wing staff designnates (or something to that effect).

That is only for Air Force Professional Military Education courses. The CAP Senior Officer Course does not fall under that.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2007, 04:07:30 PM »

I was just getting ready to order the ECI 13.  But I can assure ou I will not have it done by August!
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captrncap
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2007, 01:22:00 AM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.


Can't - Got it from my Group CC.

Of course NHQ is not able to let the membership know because they are in the process of making 1,000 new uniform changes before the summer boards (only joking) .
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2007, 04:01:14 AM »

I'm going to circle back on this and ask why anyone would think the Senir Officer's Course would even be related to Level 1?

In most cases they are separated by years of time, and certainly the new level one is not nearly as comprehensive as the 13 is.
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Pumbaa
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2007, 09:41:59 AM »

I would like to see the CAP Foundations course required for the level 1's. 

Hopefully the talk I hear about the 13's going away by August is true.. I personally thought that the 13 was a PoS!!!  The AF has gone to online education, CAP stuck to  materials that were outdated and of poor quality, the AF figured it was time CAP stopped teaching that Al GOre is VP!!

Make SLS part of level II.  ANd then offer more SLSs.  In my part of NY we have not had any for I don't know how long..  I've tried 3 times to take SLS.  One time I was going to fly to Long Island (7-8 hour drive) but the weather kept us on the ground.  Another if I remember was further west in NY (3+ hours) but I think again it was weather that made the drive oout of the question (snow).  There was one in May in PA scheduled, I was going to drive 5 hours to that, but no one ever responded to my emails or phone messages...

I am pushing our group to have one in OUR area..  Maybe in the Fall...

Back on subject... I am glad that the AF is going to can ALL the courses.  I tried going through the PAO officer materials last year and was appalled at the quality, or lack there of.  The printing was a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.. Images were nothing but smudges for the most part.  PAO is about quality communication!

At least they could have been PDF'd... Ugh...

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Eclipse
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2007, 01:48:59 PM »

1.5" hardcopy materials?  Ok, no.

Some kind of equivalent training, necessary.

The last thing we need is to make it even >easier< to get the bars.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2007, 02:22:00 PM »


Make SLS part of level II. 


It already is.
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<redacted>

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Pumbaa
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2007, 07:38:25 PM »

Let me clarify.. SLS expanded to more of a 13 course.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 06:54:00 AM »

Let me clarify.. SLS expanded to more of a 13 course.

Have you looked at the new course materials?

And actually, the purposes of the two courses are different, for the way the program is currently structured.. They have different content, and different learning styles. To add all of the AFIADL 13 material to SLS would make it too long for a weekend. Doing a correspondence course may be the most efficient way of presenting that material. It certainly weeds out the folks who aren't dedicated enough to finish it.

As for offering more SLS/CLC courses, current policy is that NHQ will fund one of each, per wing, per year. You need to convince your wing of the benefit of doing the funded one in your geographical area.

I will be teaching at an SLS this w/e, and I have to drive over two hours to get to it myself, not to mention two nights in the hotel.
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Dave Bowles
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2007, 01:47:46 PM »

Has anyone been able to confirm what the original poster was asking? 

Info about the discontinuance or change to AFIDL 13?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2007, 05:32:30 PM »

I haven't been able to find anything.
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Dave Bowles
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Pylon
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2007, 05:35:18 PM »

It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I haven't heard anything since, nor have I seen it in writing, but there's your RUMINT on the subject from a member of the NB.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
Eclipse
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2007, 06:21:41 PM »

It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I haven't heard anything since, nor have I seen it in writing, but there's your RUMINT on the subject from a member of the NB.

I'm sorry, but to be redundant to the above, UCC or TLC are not, in any meaningful way, related to the types of topics covered in the 13. 

Which, sadly, probably means this is true.

In fact, neither the UCC, nor TLC have any final test.  You simply sit in the class quietly for two days (or spend the whole time on the phone or computer handling "important CAP business" as some do, and get credit.  Right now the UCC gets you nothing, and the TLC is only a small part of the Senior rating for CPO.

And I can see right away how east it will be to get all those 10-year old 1-bars whipped into Captain by
having them "attend" one of those classes.

The 13 was the only really objective test of a member's CAP knowledge on the way to Captain.
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Capt M. Sherrod
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2007, 06:24:48 PM »

Quote
It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I seem to remember hearing something very similar to this at the MAWG conference back in March as TP, himself, was addressing either the General Assembly or the Commander's Call the next morning.
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Michael Sherrod, Capt, CAP
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Hanscom Composite Squadron, NER-MA-043
Pumbaa
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2007, 07:13:27 PM »

I will get clarification Monday as I am going to Group in the PM.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: 00013 Course - Aka ECI-13 Sanity Check
 


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