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Author Topic: 00013 Course - Aka ECI-13 Sanity Check  (Read 6422 times)
SeattleSarge
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Seattle Squadron
« on: July 04, 2007, 05:27:58 AM »

Didn't I read somewhere that after the introduction of the new Level 1 course, "CAP Foundations", that the 00013 correspondence course was going away?

Many elements of that course appear to be addressed in "CAP Foundations".

How about a sanity check.

-SeattleSarge
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Ronald G. Kruml, TSgt, CAP
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Seattle Composite Squadron PCR-WA-018
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captrncap
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2007, 05:48:30 AM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.
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Pumbaa
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 09:54:21 AM »

Yes you are correct.  AF is not going to administer them I beleive starting in August  or September.  Basically CAP needs to get on the ball and use online courses.  So if you have not completed them by August or so, then you are SOL.

I still wonder why people laugh at me when I say Al Gore is Vice President.. I mean the 13 says so!  It must be true!!
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spaatzmom
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2007, 01:16:25 PM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2007, 03:41:52 PM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.

Me, too.  Please.

What I am aware of is that certain course offered through AFIDL, the Senior Officers Course included, will now need to be proctored at a military base or similiar, by the State Dir, or 2+ Wing staff designnates (or something to that effect).

I haven't heard or seen anything about eliminating the 13 for UCC, which I would be against.  These are two separate things within CAP, and with the UCC being offered sporadically, would / could become a huge impediment to progression.
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DeputyDog
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2007, 04:04:30 PM »

What I am aware of is that certain course offered through AFIDL, the Senior Officers Course included, will now need to be proctored at a military base or similiar, by the State Dir, or 2+ Wing staff designnates (or something to that effect).

That is only for Air Force Professional Military Education courses. The CAP Senior Officer Course does not fall under that.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2007, 04:07:30 PM »

I was just getting ready to order the ECI 13.  But I can assure ou I will not have it done by August!
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captrncap
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2007, 01:22:00 AM »

Almost ---  ECI-13 does not have to be taken if a member takes the Unit Commander's Course so Level II can will be completed by taking ECI-13 or UCC plus the other requirements.


Can you cite this with regulatory backup please.  I know someone who could really use this if it can be proved valid.  Thank you.


Can't - Got it from my Group CC.

Of course NHQ is not able to let the membership know because they are in the process of making 1,000 new uniform changes before the summer boards (only joking) .
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2007, 04:01:14 AM »

I'm going to circle back on this and ask why anyone would think the Senir Officer's Course would even be related to Level 1?

In most cases they are separated by years of time, and certainly the new level one is not nearly as comprehensive as the 13 is.
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Pumbaa
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2007, 09:41:59 AM »

I would like to see the CAP Foundations course required for the level 1's. 

Hopefully the talk I hear about the 13's going away by August is true.. I personally thought that the 13 was a PoS!!!  The AF has gone to online education, CAP stuck to  materials that were outdated and of poor quality, the AF figured it was time CAP stopped teaching that Al GOre is VP!!

Make SLS part of level II.  ANd then offer more SLSs.  In my part of NY we have not had any for I don't know how long..  I've tried 3 times to take SLS.  One time I was going to fly to Long Island (7-8 hour drive) but the weather kept us on the ground.  Another if I remember was further west in NY (3+ hours) but I think again it was weather that made the drive oout of the question (snow).  There was one in May in PA scheduled, I was going to drive 5 hours to that, but no one ever responded to my emails or phone messages...

I am pushing our group to have one in OUR area..  Maybe in the Fall...

Back on subject... I am glad that the AF is going to can ALL the courses.  I tried going through the PAO officer materials last year and was appalled at the quality, or lack there of.  The printing was a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.. Images were nothing but smudges for the most part.  PAO is about quality communication!

At least they could have been PDF'd... Ugh...

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Eclipse
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2007, 01:48:59 PM »

1.5" hardcopy materials?  Ok, no.

Some kind of equivalent training, necessary.

The last thing we need is to make it even >easier< to get the bars.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2007, 02:22:00 PM »


Make SLS part of level II. 


It already is.
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<redacted>

GRW 3340
Pumbaa
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2007, 07:38:25 PM »

Let me clarify.. SLS expanded to more of a 13 course.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 06:54:00 AM »

Let me clarify.. SLS expanded to more of a 13 course.

Have you looked at the new course materials?

And actually, the purposes of the two courses are different, for the way the program is currently structured.. They have different content, and different learning styles. To add all of the AFIADL 13 material to SLS would make it too long for a weekend. Doing a correspondence course may be the most efficient way of presenting that material. It certainly weeds out the folks who aren't dedicated enough to finish it.

As for offering more SLS/CLC courses, current policy is that NHQ will fund one of each, per wing, per year. You need to convince your wing of the benefit of doing the funded one in your geographical area.

I will be teaching at an SLS this w/e, and I have to drive over two hours to get to it myself, not to mention two nights in the hotel.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2007, 01:47:46 PM »

Has anyone been able to confirm what the original poster was asking? 

Info about the discontinuance or change to AFIDL 13?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2007, 05:32:30 PM »

I haven't been able to find anything.
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Dave Bowles
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Pylon
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2007, 05:35:18 PM »

It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I haven't heard anything since, nor have I seen it in writing, but there's your RUMINT on the subject from a member of the NB.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
Eclipse
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2007, 06:21:41 PM »

It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I haven't heard anything since, nor have I seen it in writing, but there's your RUMINT on the subject from a member of the NB.

I'm sorry, but to be redundant to the above, UCC or TLC are not, in any meaningful way, related to the types of topics covered in the 13. 

Which, sadly, probably means this is true.

In fact, neither the UCC, nor TLC have any final test.  You simply sit in the class quietly for two days (or spend the whole time on the phone or computer handling "important CAP business" as some do, and get credit.  Right now the UCC gets you nothing, and the TLC is only a small part of the Senior rating for CPO.

And I can see right away how east it will be to get all those 10-year old 1-bars whipped into Captain by
having them "attend" one of those classes.

The 13 was the only really objective test of a member's CAP knowledge on the way to Captain.
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Capt M. Sherrod
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2007, 06:24:48 PM »

Quote
It was announced by the NYWG Commander at the NYWG Conference that s'members will be able to forego the AFIADL-13 requirement by taking either UCC or TLC. The course 13 waiver would apply retroactively to those who have already taken either UCC and TLC and still need 00013 for PD advancement, and would apply to all those taking UCC/TLC going forward as well.

I seem to remember hearing something very similar to this at the MAWG conference back in March as TP, himself, was addressing either the General Assembly or the Commander's Call the next morning.
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Michael Sherrod, Capt, CAP
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Pumbaa
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2007, 07:13:27 PM »

I will get clarification Monday as I am going to Group in the PM.
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Lee Davis
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2007, 06:08:21 AM »

Here's a cool "GOTCHA!"

I enrolled in ECI 13...coming down to the expiration, I applied for & received a 4 month extension.  Used to be that you had to request the test before the expiration, and take it as soon as it came.

Oops...they decided you have to complete the test within the 12 months.  Extension?  Sorry, charlie, we changed the rules and your extension doesn't exist.  So you can't take the test.  Just re-enroll in the course when you're eligible again.

Any wonder CAP has a retention problem?

I'm thinking there are other volunteer organizations which don't make it as difficult to volunteer for them...and pay to do so.
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1LT Lee Davis
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RiverAux
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 02:50:21 PM »

Quote
As for offering more SLS/CLC courses, current policy is that NHQ will fund one of each, per wing, per year. You need to convince your wing of the benefit of doing the funded one in your geographical area.

It doesn't prohibit a Wing from holding more and frankly, I've never seen very much money spent on an SLS or CLC in my Wing -- maybe fuel for the vans to drive in, but members pay for their own lodging and those using POVs don't get reimbursed for their gas. 
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SarDragon
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 08:49:18 PM »

I can't find any info on specifics of funding, but I think it mostly covers reproduction of student materials, and perhaps the cost of meeting facilities. Looking at what I saw for students handouts at the SLS I just participated in, the cost easily came to $10/person right there. My Level I materials used to cost me $8 - 9 when I got the good deal from Office Depot.
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Dave Bowles
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2007, 03:06:00 PM »

^Not sure if it helps, but they do not include an amount as it varies each year depending on the amount of monies available.

Quote from: CAPR 50-17 Page 12
c. Funding. Each fiscal year, CAP allocates funds for support of SLS. Contact NHQ CAP/ETP for the amount. When
NHQ CAP/ETP receives a CAPF 11, CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program Director‘s Report
(Attachment 6), from the SLS course director, signed by the wing commander, ETP mails a check to the wing commander.
NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one SLS per year; however, only one SLS is funded.

If the instructor is running the funded one, it is up to them to discuss budget constraints with whomever controls the funds.

The SLS's that I've directed have all been 'non-funded,' and have cost me absolutely nothing to run.  NHQ sent the student workbooks and instructor guides.  The squadron has a projector and laptop.  The PPT slides are provided.  Copies of specific things were 'donated' by work.  The location was free.  The only cost was lodging for the members at the bases rate for their VOQ.

I'm not sure about the new one, but the old one required you to specify the # of students and NHQ provided the student materials through the mail.  The finance report was really easy for those... $0.00
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Capt Rivera
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« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2007, 06:36:36 PM »

update?: You can STILL enroll in Course 13 and I have still not seen anything official of the requirement being lifted or modified.

Anyone else with updates to this topics? Anyone know how the funding process works for SLS & CLC ? in other words how/when etc of getting funding to put the course on?
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//Signed//

Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
Squadron Commander
Grand Forks Composite Squadron
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.grandforkscap.org
Eclipse
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« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2007, 07:09:51 PM »

update?: You can STILL enroll in Course 13 and I have still not seen anything official of the requirement being lifted or modified.

Anyone else with updates to this topics? Anyone know how the funding process works for SLS & CLC ? in other words how/when etc of getting funding to put the course on?

This was just a false rumor - no such change was made or is being discussed.

As to "funding an SLS" - I'm not sure what you mean.  The materials are all available for free on NHQ's site.

All you need is some space and participants.

The new curriculum is so discussion-based as to have the printed materials basically being optional.

We will be putting on one in late January, the second time we will be using the new curriculum, as with the last time, we will provide links to all participants to the materials - if you want to print them, great, if not, you don't really need them, anyway.

Last time a number of participants brought the PDF's on their PDA's, cel phones, or notebook computers.

We offer these classes at no cost other than an optional $5 if you want to participate in bagels and coffee each morning. 

(It should be noted that some wings, mine included, specifically prohibit using an SLS/CLC as a fund raiser)
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Capt Rivera
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2007, 08:16:04 PM »

update?: You can STILL enroll in Course 13 and I have still not seen anything official of the requirement being lifted or modified.

Anyone else with updates to this topics? Anyone know how the funding process works for SLS & CLC ? in other words how/when etc of getting funding to put the course on?

This was just a false rumor - no such change was made or is being discussed.

As to "funding an SLS" - I'm not sure what you mean.  The materials are all available for free on NHQ's site.

All you need is some space and participants.

The new curriculum is so discussion-based as to have the printed materials basically being optional.

We will be putting on one in late January, the second time we will be using the new curriculum, as with the last time, we will provide links to all participants to the materials - if you want to print them, great, if not, you don't really need them, anyway.

Last time a number of participants brought the PDF's on their PDA's, cel phones, or notebook computers.

We offer these classes at no cost other than an optional $5 if you want to participate in bagels and coffee each morning. 

(It should be noted that some wings, mine included, specifically prohibit using an SLS/CLC as a fund raiser)

I'm mostly looking for funding that can be applied to transportation... does NHQ not support this?
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//Signed//

Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
Squadron Commander
Grand Forks Composite Squadron
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.grandforkscap.org
Eclipse
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2007, 08:35:52 PM »

I'm mostly looking for funding that can be applied to transportation... does NHQ not support this?

To my knowledge NHQ only provides actual costs such as printing, etc.  No transport reimbursements.

How far would you have to go?  My wing did four last year, set in different parts of the state.

Why not just host one locally?
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Capt Rivera
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2007, 10:24:40 PM »

I'm mostly looking for funding that can be applied to transportation... does NHQ not support this?

To my knowledge NHQ only provides actual costs such as printing, etc.  No transport reimbursements.

How far would you have to go?  My wing did four last year, set in different parts of the state.

Why not just host one locally?

Considering hosting one locally actually... but I am asking because my wing... ND WING is very spaced out and it is not usually affordable or practical to drive 5 hours to get to one. Still can't easily do anything about the time, but funding squadron vans to get to the location would be helpful to squadrons & wings with limited funding.
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//Signed//

Joshua Rivera, Capt, CAP
Squadron Commander
Grand Forks Composite Squadron
North Dakota Wing, Civil Air Patrol
http://www.grandforkscap.org
JCJ
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« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2007, 08:22:08 PM »

update?: You can STILL enroll in Course 13 and I have still not seen anything official of the requirement being lifted or modified.

Anyone else with updates to this topics? Anyone know how the funding process works for SLS & CLC ? in other words how/when etc of getting funding to put the course on?

NHQ Prof. Development is working on a CAP specific, modular, distance learning (internet) based course that will replace AFIADL 13.  It is not complete yet, but the work to date was presented to the NEC at the Nov meeting and was excellent.  I don't know when the roll-out will be but they have made very good progress so far.  When it is done, the course will be done online through a CAP server, and not through AFIADL.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: 00013 Course - Aka ECI-13 Sanity Check
 


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