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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Senior Member Physical Fitness
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SAREXinNY
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2015, 02:38:59 AM »

Who administers and pays for our current wing, region, and national level competitions? NCC is currently in progress right now...run it concurrently with that.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2015, 03:09:39 AM »

Who administers and pays for our current wing, region, and national level competitions? NCC is currently in progress right now...run it concurrently with that.

The competition was cut back because of funding issues. Now you want to expand it. Again, I ask, who is going to pay for it? Your response answers nothing.
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Dave Bowles
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Fubar
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2015, 05:25:21 AM »

Good thoughts here. Thought that the HSOs were supposed to have a role in this. Do they still exist?

They do, but according to NHQ/CP, the were not consulted at all when developing the new cadet physical fitness requirements (they chose an outside expert as a consultant).
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dwb
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2015, 11:44:02 AM »

I don't see a need to create any new directorates or staff positions.  The mechanism is already in place in the President's Challenge program for members to track their progress.  Simply use it.

Do it then. Nothing is stopping you from implementing this in your squadron now. You can even propose it to your Group/Wing Commander and run it at that echelon.

This doesn't have to be "national or not at all". If you think it's a good idea, try to run it at the Wing level and field test the concept.
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winterg
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2015, 11:46:23 AM »

I don't see a need to create any new directorates or staff positions.  The mechanism is already in place in the President's Challenge program for members to track their progress.  Simply use it.

Do it then. Nothing is stopping you from implementing this in your squadron now. You can even propose it to your Group/Wing Commander and run it at that echelon.

This doesn't have to be "national or not at all". If you think it's a good idea, try to run it at the Wing level and field test the concept.

I do realize all of these tings and I do have a plan.  Opening a topic for discussion here doesn't mean I am trying to reinvent CAP overnight.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2015, 01:04:19 PM »

The bottom line is, we as members can, and should, be doing more to promote healthy lifestyles in our organization for the well-being of our members as well as to be the example in our communities.

BLUF how do you propose to sell it to member especially the adult membership?  We hear it in the news and from Drs, Nurses, etc.  If someone doesn't want to be in shape they are not going to be and no amount of foot stopping, brow beating or regurgitation is going to change that.

My day job spouts it way to much and thank god it's been removed from the eval system and hopefully will no longer be as career impacting as it currently is.

Why canít CAP as an organization negotiate a corporate rate with a gym chain the way many organizations and companies do?

What is the benefit for said gym chains of doing so what are they going to get by this deal that they are not getting anyway?

The Presidents Challenge program is used as a basis for our cadet physical fitness standards.  The Presidents Challenge has programs for all ages that we can voluntarily incorporate into our program as senior members.  I am not talking about senior members passing a mile run or being able to pass the CPFT.  But as an organization, we currently do nothing to promote and encourage a healthy lifestyle among our senior members and I wholeheartedly believe we can and should be doing this.

As and org it is not our responsibility to do so and quite frankly the org has no business trying to jump on the bandwagon.  See above if a senior member has no desire to do so they won't.  You can't make it a requirement for anything nor can you force anyone to voluntarily do so. It's not the orgs responsibility to offer healthy choices to anyone outside of the cadets.

You remind me of an LT I worked for who thought doing a full 90 days of Isanity 5 days a week was a good idea for section PT.  Are you trying to boost some type of sales numbers or are you a Personal Trainer trying to drum up business?
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winterg
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2015, 01:10:35 PM »

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing. 
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abdsp51
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2015, 01:16:52 PM »

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing.

No it shouldn't a volunteer non profit org has no business trying to dictate members lifestyles and has no business in our doctrine.  There is very little benefit to CAP trying to do anything you have suggested.

And the quote dangerous trend you seem to see and that is being claimed is due to the lack of personal and parental responsibility.  It is not the orgs domain nor place to increase awareness on this since the populace gets it daily.  You want a healthier lifestyle across the country make the healthy options cheaper and more flavorful and that will help to change this so called dangerous trend you claim is there. 

I think you have some type of hidden agenda with this topic.
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winterg
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 01:20:05 PM »

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said. Lol. Increasing awareness and opportunities for healthy living with the goal of a healthier member base should absolutely be part of our CAP doctrine. And of course we cannot force anyone to participate. This is a volunteer organization. We can't force any member to do anything. But considering the dangerous trends here in America as far as a lack of healthy habits, you will not convince me that this is an issue we should not be discussing.

No it shouldn't a volunteer non profit org has no business trying to dictate members lifestyles and has no business in our doctrine.  There is very little benefit to CAP trying to do anything you have suggested.

And the quote dangerous trend you seem to see and that is being claimed is due to the lack of personal and parental responsibility.  It is not the orgs domain nor place to increase awareness on this since the populace gets it daily.  You want a healthier lifestyle across the country make the healthy options cheaper and more flavorful and that will help to change this so called dangerous trend you claim is there. 

I think you have some type of hidden agenda with this topic.
Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist. 
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abdsp51
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2015, 01:38:08 PM »

Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

I think maybe your a new PT or possibly Beachbody instructor trying to boost his/her numbers.  Or you have just became a major fitness nut and think everyone else should be or your just jumping on the bandwagon

CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist.

1) The orgs scopes on dictating what a member can do off CAP's time is exceptionally limited especially for adult members.

2) CAP cannot dictate how someone leads their lives especially on their own time.  The org has no business trying to preach or make policy about anything not in their scope of authority. 

Sorry but the org cannot dictate membership's personal life and frankly what someone chooses to eat and how often if they decide to exercise is none of the orgs business. 
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RRLE
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2015, 01:41:48 PM »

No one has addressed the nut of the problem, which is why are people fat? The standard answer is that they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough. So the solution is to encourage diet and exercise. However, the solution is only an answer to the first Why of the 5 Whys. Since it only answers the first Why the solution will fail for most people.

The second Why, which I don't know the answer to, is Why don't people diet and exercise? The answer to this Why could be many and varied, leading to an inverted tree structure to get to the fifth Why.

My WAG is that for most people: dieting is a pain - people like what they eat and despite claims to the contrary, most diets are lousy - especially if they involve a change to what people LIKE to eat. Exercise is worse - you have to carve out time out of an already busy day to do something most people don't enjoy. And last - the benefits are not proven to most people. People don't believe statistics - especially if they are being used to justify something they don't want to do - diet and exercise. What people see every day is what matters - they see fat people (of varying degrees of fatness) living to ripe old ages and enjoying life for the most part. They don't see the high blood pressure medicine, diabetes meds etc. So the perception is that the diet and exercise industry is only looking out for its own profits (true to a certain degree).

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winterg
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2015, 01:45:10 PM »

I am not, a fitness instructor or a fitness nut. At all. But from the tone implied in your post, I doubt my statement will allay your concerns.

You have every right to not support a completely voluntary activity with healthy lifestyle education added to the program similar to our curent safety program. I don't understand the opposition, but that's fine. But maybe I'm tired of seeing friends and family suffer with issues that were completely preventable if they were not engaging in such self destructive behavior.  Maybe I want to be healthier and think it will be easier if there are more people on the same path. Whatever the underlying motication, a healthier membership only benefits everyone involved including the organization. 
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THRAWN
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2015, 01:56:38 PM »

No one has addressed the nut of the problem, which is why are people fat? The standard answer is that they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough. So the solution is to encourage diet and exercise. However, the solution is only an answer to the first Why of the 5 Whys. Since it only answers the first Why the solution will fail for most people.

The second Why, which I don't know the answer to, is Why don't people diet and exercise? The answer to this Why could be many and varied, leading to an inverted tree structure to get to the fifth Why.

My WAG is that for most people: dieting is a pain - people like what they eat and despite claims to the contrary, most diets are lousy - especially if they involve a change to what people LIKE to eat. Exercise is worse - you have to carve out time out of an already busy day to do something most people don't enjoy. And last - the benefits are not proven to most people. People don't believe statistics - especially if they are being used to justify something they don't want to do - diet and exercise. What people see every day is what matters - they see fat people (of varying degrees of fatness) living to ripe old ages and enjoying life for the most part. They don't see the high blood pressure medicine, diabetes meds etc. So the perception is that the diet and exercise industry is only looking out for its own profits (true to a certain degree).

So eat the things you like, but less of it. Instead of a whole meat lover's pizza, try 2 slices. As for exercises, do active stuff that is enjoyable. My lovely bride loves going to classes. I'd rather shave my eyeballs. We're both active and healthy and get their on our own paths.

I think the whole point to this is to encourage voluntary participation in a fitness activity. Like I said before, I've done this, it works and it's fun. If you don't want to play along, then don't.
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Strup
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THRAWN
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2015, 02:00:14 PM »

Could you possibly enlighten me as to what this hidden agenda is? Since I have no agenda other than what I have posted here, I cannot fathom what it may be.

I think maybe your a new PT or possibly Beachbody instructor trying to boost his/her numbers.  Or you have just became a major fitness nut and think everyone else should be or your just jumping on the bandwagon

CAP demands adherence to a a set of values which dictate how members conduct themselves, in and out of CAP activities.  How is this any different? I think you are seeing a boogy man where none exist.

1) The orgs scopes on dictating what a member can do off CAP's time is exceptionally limited especially for adult members.

2) CAP cannot dictate how someone leads their lives especially on their own time.  The org has no business trying to preach or make policy about anything not in their scope of authority. 

Sorry but the org cannot dictate membership's personal life and frankly what someone chooses to eat and how often if they decide to exercise is none of the orgs business.

CAP does to an extent dictate how people live their lives on their own time. CAP doesnt tolerate excessive use of alcohol or drugs. CAP doesnt tolerate people who have moral issues. The point is not to mandate a fitness routine, but to encourage a healthy lifestyle.
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Strup
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2015, 03:16:42 PM »

CAP already sets a physical standard to wear the Air Force-style uniform. It could very well set a physical fitness standard to be part of the organization, work with cadets (especially in their fitness program), or be engaged in Emergency Services, such as GSAR. It would most likely lose half its membership if it does, since I doubt many would be able or willing to comply with such standard, but it certainly could. That said, we depend on our current membership to operate and are numbers are not growing. For decades, CAP have attempted to be all thing to all people, so I doubt such a standard will ever be instituted.
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Paul_AK
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2015, 04:32:44 PM »

CAP does to an extent dictate how people live their lives on their own time. CAP doesnt tolerate excessive use of alcohol or drugs. CAP doesnt tolerate people who have moral issues. The point is not to mandate a fitness routine, but to encourage a healthy lifestyle.
It'll take quite a lot to change the underlying cultural issues. Until food choices and portions are better (more accessible, healthier...) and people abandon the sedentary lifestyle that has become commonplace, CAP will continue to display the norms experienced across demographic boundaries. If anything, I think that the CAP is in a good place to become an agent of change if even at a small level. To echo the sentiment of many, making an incentive program would be something at the very least.
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Paul M. McBride
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2015, 05:24:48 PM »

There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this? 
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Ned
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2015, 05:25:53 PM »

I think I mentioned in the other thread that this can be a touchy subject, and sometimes CT participants have difficulty even discussing it politely.

Here's an old thread on the topic.

We even had a thread on the Presidential Challenge Program before it got locked.

But I think we could probably get consensus for some sort of optional program with a visible incentive.  Maybe based on the President's Challenge Program and authorize a PT ribbon with a bronze, silver, or gold clasp for the Challenge awards.  Or maybe a senior member PT badge.

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THRAWN
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2015, 05:35:26 PM »

There is a lot more to weight control than diet and exercise.  To think otherwise is to reveal your lack of education.  Why not worry about members mental health?  Oh, and what uniform would one wear for all of this?

That was rude. CAP does concern itself with a member's mental health. That is why the CISD program exists. Again, who is saying that it needs to be a structured uniformed program? Getting your SM team together on an off meeting night to play volleyball, or hit the gym, or do some kind of physical activity on meeting nights doesn't really require any special uniform. You're thinking is very lateral on this. There are a lot of ways a program like this could work and be greatly beneficial to the individuals, as well as the perception of the organization. No one is saying that it should be a mandatory part of the SMTP, but like ACSC, it's nice to have as an option....
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Strup
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2015, 05:37:26 PM »

I think I mentioned in the other thread that this can be a touchy subject, and sometimes CT participants have difficulty even discussing it politely.

Here's an old thread on the topic.

We even had a thread on the Presidential Challenge Program before it got locked.

But I think we could probably get consensus for some sort of optional program with a visible incentive.  Maybe based on the President's Challenge Program and authorize a PT ribbon with a bronze, silver, or gold clasp for the Challenge awards.  Or maybe a senior member PT badge.

This doesn't seem too difficult to implement: https://www.presidentschallenge.org/challenge/active/index.shtml
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Strup
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Senior Member Physical Fitness
 


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