Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 24, 2019, 08:33:02 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Stolen Valor Confrontation
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All Send this topic Print
Author Topic: Stolen Valor Confrontation  (Read 13768 times)
C/SrA Ravlin
Recruit

Posts: 42
Unit: RMR-ID-073

Boise CAP
« on: December 10, 2015, 08:18:06 PM »

So this guy I saw the other day was wearing ABU's with ribbons (including the purple heart ribbon), wearing his cover indoors, and did not have his boots bloused. He was carrying a hand gun so I did not confront him about it other than having a general conversation with him about his "service" and asking if he had his CAC card on him, to which he responded "I left it at home." (For those of you who don't know a CAC card is, it is required to be carried on all active, select reserve, and DOD officials by the Geneva Convention). He said he had served 2 tours in Afghanistan and been in combat in both tours with the Delta Squad. How would you handle this safely? I have seen many videos where the phony has tried to fight the person confronting them.
I know this is a little off topic from CAP but please let me know how this should be handled.
Sincerely,
Cadet Ravlin   
Report to moderator   Logged
Cadet SrA Ravlin
Cadet Communications NCO
Boise RMR-ID-073
"Semper Vigilans"
www.gocivilairpatrol.com
www.boisecap.org
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,323
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2015, 08:43:14 PM »

So this guy I saw the other day was wearing ABU's with ribbons (including the purple heart ribbon), wearing his cover indoors, and did not have his boots bloused. He was carrying a hand gun so I did not confront him about it other than having a general conversation with him about his "service" and asking if he had his CAC card on him, to which he responded "I left it at home." (For those of you who don't know a CAC card is, it is required to be carried on all active, select reserve, and DOD officials by the Geneva Convention). He said he had served 2 tours in Afghanistan and been in combat in both tours with the Delta Squad. How would you handle this safely? I have seen many videos where the phony has tried to fight the person confronting them.
I know this is a little off topic from CAP but please let me know how this should be handled.
Sincerely,
Cadet Ravlin

I would leave him to his delusions. It's not worth the danger to you, especially if he's carrying. Though, it could have been an airsoft gun. Let actual vets and AD deal with this guy. Chances are, he is deluded and acting out a fantasy. Delta Squad? Pfft. Go to http://thisainthell.us/blog/?page_id=30655

Then check out MSGT Soup Sandwich.
Report to moderator   Logged
You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,043

« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2015, 09:36:57 PM »

There are serious psychological issues that accompany someone who acts this way.  Quite honestly unless someone is actively trying to gain access or deceive for some sort of real illegal gain its not even illegal in most cases.  At least not in the sense that anyone is getting cuffed and going to jail simply for walking around in a uniform telling stories.

In  your place as a cadet......  Best for you to steer clear.   Ive seen a couple people in the local mall who Ive seen in a set of Marine dress blues that were so botched it wasn't even a question and one in a set of USAF ABUs with USMC name tapes and a 2nd Marine Division patch on the sleeve in full color.  Im a vet, Im also a deputy sheriff.  I was off-duty.  In neither case did I feel the need to confront them or "call the cops".  In 99% of these situations you see people post on Youtube, people are taking their safety into their own hands confronting someone who is #1 trying to be deceptive and/or #2 has a serious delusion or psych situation that makes them dangerous.   I particularly cringe when I see people confront posers with their families present. 

In my time in the military I exposed a SEAL poser who was an Army E-8 in my reserve unit. Yes... he was an Army Reserve E8 who had been wearing a SEAL trident for years and getting promotion points and all.   A second Special Forces poser I put in jail for a long situation I don't feel like typing right now.  But he went to jail for ultimately lying to the judge about his service.   In both cases, both of these men lost a pretty much everything they had worked (lied) for.  That can and will make people dangerous. 

And in this case the guy was carrying a gun?  And you still chose to contact him knowing he was a liar?????   C'mon.  Be smarter than that. 
Report to moderator   Logged
A.Member
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,621

« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2015, 10:08:24 PM »

I agree with Flying Pig. 

To dovetail on his comments, there's also been a number of serious cases of false stolen valor incidents in the news recently.  Ex. http://popularmilitary.com/vietnam-veteran-humiliated-and-assaulted-by-active-duty-marines/

The actions of some of the vets, such as those in the story above, bring even more disgrace to the uniform than so some of the posers. 

Another good read on the topic:
http://havokjournal.com/culture/stolen-valor-fratricide/

Look, the poser probably isn't really fooling many people.  In most cases it's probably best to shake your head and move along but as a cadet, you certainly have no place in calling out someone.
Report to moderator   Logged
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,622
Unit: Classified

« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2015, 10:32:44 PM »

Leave it to the pros to deal with this stuff. 

Also you should know that you have no legal grounds to ask to see anyone's CAC.  If you do not fall into specific categories a service member is under no obligation to present their CAC to anyone. 

Next time steer clear especially if the party is packing.
Report to moderator   Logged
C/SrA Ravlin
Recruit

Posts: 42
Unit: RMR-ID-073

Boise CAP
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2015, 01:36:11 AM »

Thanks for the replies. I will heed the advice.  As a person who would like to be in the Air Force the day I turn 18 it makes me angry to see people doing this. I appreciate the advice.
Sincerely,
Cadet Ravlin
Report to moderator   Logged
Cadet SrA Ravlin
Cadet Communications NCO
Boise RMR-ID-073
"Semper Vigilans"
www.gocivilairpatrol.com
www.boisecap.org
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,622
Unit: Classified

« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2015, 04:14:34 AM »

So this guy I saw the other day was wearing ABU's with ribbons (including the purple heart ribbon), wearing his cover indoors, and did not have his boots bloused. He was carrying a hand gun so I did not confront him about it other than having a general conversation with him about his "service" and asking if he had his CAC card on him, to which he responded "I left it at home." (For those of you who don't know a CAC card is, it is required to be carried on all active, select reserve, and DOD officials by the Geneva Convention). He said he had served 2 tours in Afghanistan and been in combat in both tours with the Delta Squad. How would you handle this safely? I have seen many videos where the phony has tried to fight the person confronting them.
I know this is a little off topic from CAP but please let me know how this should be handled.
Sincerely,
Cadet Ravlin

I would leave him to his delusions. It's not worth the danger to you, especially if he's carrying. Though, it could have been an airsoft gun. Let actual vets and AD deal with this guy. Chances are, he is deluded and acting out a fantasy. Delta Squad? Pfft. Go to http://thisainthell.us/blog/?page_id=30655

Then check out MSGT Soup Sandwich.

Don't forget a poser who was part of our own org in VA.  Even after she was outed she kept going with her claims.
Report to moderator   Logged
Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 718

« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 06:15:29 AM »


Don't forget a poser who was part of our own org in VA.  Even after she was outed she kept going with her claims.

It's irritating, maybe distressing, maybe just amusing, maybe even fun when someone masquerades as a vet.  It may just be a manifestation of mental illness, insecurity, wishing they were someone/something they are not, or a backhanded way of saying vets deserve respect for their service.    If they wear the uniform and talk about their imaginary exploits IMHO, they can have at it.  It's just pretend.  For example, how many aircraft do we see, warbirds and other, with military markings?  I know a few guys who are very proud of their warbirds, yet aren't vets.   However, when the storyline gets blurred with reality (i.e. it's used to falsely claim some financial advantage) it crosses the line.  That's fraud.  How to address even that is pretty situational, IMHO.  But I can't think of a situation where individually confronting a wanna be would be the best approach.
Report to moderator   Logged
Stonewall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,991

« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 12:19:19 PM »

We have dealt with some levels of stolen valor right here on CAP Talk.  Personally, I have dealt with a few bogus claims from Navy SEALs to Marine Snipers.  If someone simply says something that sounds off, I just nod my head and smile.  If someone is wearing something they didn't earn and its not hurting anyone, I'll probably cringe but not take action.

My issue comes when, like Flying Pig said, if someone is trying to use bogus qualifications, medals, or spew lies of service for personal gain, then I may intervene.  This includes potential CAP members who show up and start bragging about all of their special skills, but my fake-o-meter starts to ping. 

At the end of the day some people have low self-esteem and for some reason need the attention of others for things they didn't do or accomplish.
Report to moderator   Logged
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,913

« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 01:30:47 PM »

We have dealt with some levels of stolen valor right here on CAP Talk.  Personally, I have dealt with a few bogus claims from Navy SEALs to Marine Snipers.  If someone simply says something that sounds off, I just nod my head and smile.  If someone is wearing something they didn't earn and its not hurting anyone, I'll probably cringe but not take action.

My issue comes when, like Flying Pig said, if someone is trying to use bogus qualifications, medals, or spew lies of service for personal gain, then I may intervene.  This includes potential CAP members who show up and start bragging about all of their special skills, but my fake-o-meter starts to ping. 

At the end of the day some people have low self-esteem and for some reason need the attention of others for things they didn't do or accomplish.

Are you questioning me? During Operation Desert Nam, I was a sniper with the Army SEALs assigned to the 25th Marine Infantry Division. What did you do? Probably a cook or some other POG....(I actually know better, but you get the point...)

I was in line at Starbucks behind a guy wearing cammies that weren't quite right this past weekend. Just leave it at he walked out without his latte....
Report to moderator   Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,323
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2015, 01:56:21 PM »

We have dealt with some levels of stolen valor right here on CAP Talk.  Personally, I have dealt with a few bogus claims from Navy SEALs to Marine Snipers.  If someone simply says something that sounds off, I just nod my head and smile.  If someone is wearing something they didn't earn and its not hurting anyone, I'll probably cringe but not take action.

My issue comes when, like Flying Pig said, if someone is trying to use bogus qualifications, medals, or spew lies of service for personal gain, then I may intervene.  This includes potential CAP members who show up and start bragging about all of their special skills, but my fake-o-meter starts to ping. 

At the end of the day some people have low self-esteem and for some reason need the attention of others for things they didn't do or accomplish.

Are you questioning me? During Operation Desert Nam, I was a sniper with the Army SEALs assigned to the 25th Marine Infantry Division. What did you do? Probably a cook or some other POG....(I actually know better, but you get the point...)

I was in line at Starbucks behind a guy wearing cammies that weren't quite right this past weekend. Just leave it at he walked out without his latte....

You were in Desert Nam too? I was in the 440th Infantry Regiment assigned to the Air Delta Force. I was in charge of the tactical nukes (don't let anyone tell you different; we had them in-theater and I saw them!). One night, this is no s___, a bunch of Iranians came onto our base at 0330 while everyone was asleep but me. I just happened to be walking around with my M-65 machine gun with 10,000 rounds of tracer ammo. I had some special night vision glasses that were still in the experimental phase and saw all them Pakistanis coming through the barb wire fence with knives in their teeth and dynamite strapped to their chests. Well, I don't have to tell you what explosives will do to a nuke, so I started blasting them, full auto, for like half an hour straight, no let up,  before my buddies finally figured out what was happening. By that  time, I had killed most of them, wounded about 300 and watched the remaining Indians run back through the barb wire...right into the minefield with command detonated bombs. I pulled the trigger on the detonator and BOOM! All the rest of them Iraqis went up in a sheet of flame. When we went out the next morning there was nothing but body parts and blood. I got a Medal of Honor, a Silver Star, and an Air Force Cross for that action, to go along with my Navy Cross for when I was attached to Seal Team 12, which was super-secret at the time since we were hunting bin Laden and we actually killed him but Seal  Team Six got all the credit.
Report to moderator   Logged
You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,199
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2015, 02:02:34 PM »

No, you weren't. I have your record jacket at the unit:  Clerk Typist, 3C.   ;)

V/R,
Spam
Report to moderator   Logged
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,913

« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2015, 02:09:34 PM »

No, you weren't. I have your record jacket at the unit:  Clerk Typist, 3C.   ;)

V/R,
Spam

That's G14 classified....you can't spout that without using an approved cone of silence...
Report to moderator   Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,323
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2015, 02:18:50 PM »

No, you weren't. I have your record jacket at the unit:  Clerk Typist, 3C.   ;)

V/R,
Spam

That's G14 classified....you can't spout that without using an approved cone of silence...

My actual personnel file won't be declassified until 2025 at the earliest. This is what they put in as cover for my covert operations with Delta Force. I actually was a GLG-20 operative working for the DIA/CIA, tracking down a Soviet-era ICBM in Afghanistan. Along with my partner, Emmet Fitz-Hume (not his real name) and another operative named Karen Boyer, we found the missile and destroyed it, while repelling a Spetznaz team made up of KGB and GRU officers.
Report to moderator   Logged
You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,043

« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2015, 02:22:16 PM »

I have my Service Records that reflect a relatively uneventful but fun 7 years spent in the infantry in both the Marines and the Army.   But at CIA Headquarters in Oklahoma City, they maintain my classified file that nobody has access to.  But Im still allowed to wear the medals that are noted in my CIA file.   Thats why they dont show on my DD214.  All I can do is ask that you trust me. 




 >:D
Report to moderator   Logged
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,913

« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 02:27:03 PM »

I have my Service Records that reflect a relatively uneventful but fun 7 years spent in the infantry in both the Marines and the Army.   But at CIA Headquarters in Oklahoma City, they maintain my classified file that nobody has access to.  But Im still allowed to wear the medals that are noted in my CIA file.   Thats why they dont show on my DD214.  All I can do is ask that you trust me. 




 >:D

At least you have records. All of mine were destroyed when Fort Knox was burned. Luckily, I found some images of the certificates that I knew were in my file and was able to replicate my record. The Spanish American War rages on...
Report to moderator   Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,199
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 02:27:13 PM »

Doctor, Doctor, aaaannnnd... Doctor!

When the original Cadet Protection screening/fingerprinting came out in 1988, we lost a good chunk of members who refused to be fingerprinted (which is OK, really). Two of them were the then-Commander of the Patrick AFB, FL Squadron and his wife, who had regaled us all with stories of his flying F-4s in Nam. Desk model of an F-4 on a stick. Fake photos, fake unit flags, wall hangings, etc. Three or four months later, the base SPs questioned CAP as to why he was using base facilities in our name to try to start up a separate local youth SAR battalion... a USAF agent led investigation ensued... turned out he was a one enlistment E-3 (at discharge) in the early '70s who was neither an officer, nor in any way associated with F-4s let alone a pilot, nor even did he deploy OCONUS to Nam or anywhere else, and was fraudulently claiming affiliation with several DoD related agencies/support groups (such as CAP). They ended up nabbing him for several bad things, as I recall.

Offered for consideration for those who might feel that our screening/verification/training program or the requirement for a Membership Committee is overblown. I don't think so at all.

V/R
Spam

Report to moderator   Logged
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,179

« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2015, 02:27:40 PM »

No, you weren't. I have your record jacket at the unit:  Clerk Typist, 3C.   ;)

V/R,
Spam

That's G14 classified....you can't spout that without using an approved cone of silence...

My actual personnel file won't be declassified until 2025 at the earliest. This is what they put in as cover for my covert operations with Delta Force. I actually was a GLG-20 operative working for the DIA/CIA, tracking down a Soviet-era ICBM in Afghanistan. Along with my partner, Emmet Fitz-Hume (not his real name) and another operative named Karen Boyer, we found the missile and destroyed it, while repelling a Spetznaz team made up of KGB and GRU officers.

Doctor?
Report to moderator   Logged
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,913

« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2015, 02:30:07 PM »

Doctor, Doctor, aaaannnnd... Doctor!

When the original Cadet Protection screening/fingerprinting came out in 1988, we lost a good chunk of members who refused to be fingerprinted (which is OK, really). Two of them were the then-Commander of the Patrick AFB, FL Squadron and his wife, who had regaled us all with stories of his flying F-4s in Nam. Desk model of an F-4 on a stick. Fake photos, fake unit flags, wall hangings, etc. Three or four months later, the base SPs questioned CAP as to why he was using base facilities in our name to try to start up a separate local youth SAR battalion... a USAF agent led investigation ensued... turned out he was a one enlistment E-3 (at discharge) in the early '70s who was neither an officer, nor in any way associated with F-4s let alone a pilot, nor even did he deploy OCONUS to Nam or anywhere else, and was fraudulently claiming affiliation with several DoD related agencies/support groups (such as CAP). They ended up nabbing him for several bad things, as I recall.

Offered for consideration for those who might feel that our screening/verification/training program or the requirement for a Membership Committee is overblown. I don't think so at all.

V/R
Spam

Happens a lot. Had a smooth talking jive cat flap his gums about his SF quals, and how he would be a great GSAR instructor and how we were doing things all wrong. Presented a stack of copies of certificates from the "US Army Infintry Base". He didn't last long.
Report to moderator   Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,323
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2015, 02:46:07 PM »

No, you weren't. I have your record jacket at the unit:  Clerk Typist, 3C.   ;)

V/R,
Spam

That's G14 classified....you can't spout that without using an approved cone of silence...

My actual personnel file won't be declassified until 2025 at the earliest. This is what they put in as cover for my covert operations with Delta Force. I actually was a GLG-20 operative working for the DIA/CIA, tracking down a Soviet-era ICBM in Afghanistan. Along with my partner, Emmet Fitz-Hume (not his real name) and another operative named Karen Boyer, we found the missile and destroyed it, while repelling a Spetznaz team made up of KGB and GRU officers.

Doctor?

Spies Like Us  :-X
Report to moderator   Logged
You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All Send this topic Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Stolen Valor Confrontation
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 26 queries.
click here to email me