Force Sensor

[Luis R. Ramos]

During our meeting yesterday, the teacher in charge of the room we met addressed another senior member, he is the Cadet Programs Officer, and showed him what he called a force sensor.

Basically you attach the force sensor to a bracket, and a model rocket as well. You fire the rocket. The rocket remains in the ground, while the sensor measures forces affecting the rocket, making projections of the rocket flight. It was touted as an activity and a response to city kids who have no place to fly rockets.

As an example, I live in New York City. We cannot fly rockets anywhere in the city itself, nor can we fly them in the neighboring counties of Nassau or Suffolk.

The closest we can get are fields in New Jersey after a drive of 3 hours...

So, question. Have anyone heard of those force sensors and whether this could be a viable alternative to the Model Rocketry?

[CAPs1]

Pasco and other companies offer model rocketry brackets and sensors.
I am sure the AEM wasn't 'touting' this as an activity, it was an activity considering all that should have gone into prepping for everything else up to the launch and including the use of brackets and sensors for the 'launch'; since you outline flight limitations in your area it was a worthy effort to the alternative of firing up the CAP van and driving several hours. 

They are not meant to be an 'alternative to model rocketry' but to facilitate the exploration of this aspect of Aerospace when normal launches are not possible.

Locally, you have a NAR chapter that certainly is familiar with the devices, but am sure AEM or teacher could have offered the same clarification.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Apparently I was not clear in my post.

I am squadron CC and AEO. Have wanted to run Model Rocketry for a year or so in my squadron but cannot for other reasons. We meet in a room dedicated to Aeronautics in a high school. The other active senior member talks to the teacher in charge of the room we meet in. That teacher is not a CAP member. He tells that other senior member about the Force Sensor, and this senior member talks to me of the Force Sensor as an alternative to the rocket flights the Model Rocketry program lists.

And please please do not say "You need to get that teacher in your squadron." I know, and have suggested to that other senior member (because he is a teacher in that school as well) to talk to that teacher to join us.

Back to my original question.

Has any member used force sensors in this way?

[THRAWN]

I'll counter your question with one of my own:

You state "We cannot fly rockets anywhere in the city itself, nor can we fly them in the neighboring counties of Nassau or Suffolk."

Why? Have you contacted your local Scout council to find out where they're punching holes in the sky? Find it odd that you can't fly rockets out in the county, nor can you find areas closer in NJ. Group 221 flies rockets...

[Luis R. Ramos]

...nor can you find areas closer in NJ.

You misread my messages, as I said we had to travel to NJ to fly. Nassau and Suffolk are heavily developed.

From my first post:

The closest we can get are fields in New Jersey after a drive of 3 hours...

But tell me, why are you trying to change the topic? If the question is about Force Sensors, why are we not sticking to that?[/b

When will someone change this to a uniform topic?

[THRAWN]

I didn't misread anything. I live, and have lived in heavily developed areas all of my adult life, and had no issue finding places to punch holes in the sky. As for NJ, why does it take 3 hours to get to NJ from NYC? Are you walking? Have you looked at Rockland County if you have to stay in NY?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Traffic. If not three hours going to, then you get it coming back. New Jersey places are closer to NYC than Rockland!

[AirAux]

Luis. it should be fairly apparent by this point that no one knows anything about force sensors, but those that don't seem to have a great need to post something..

[arajca]

It sounds interesting, but a successful launch is a launch and recovery so the rocket is able to fly again. A stationary test won't tell you if you made a small alignment issue and created a rocket propelled lawn dart (BTDT). It all looked good until it nosed over under thrust. It passed the stability tests. Turned out I misaligned the engine tube. Oops.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Thank you very much. As a teacher I can take something like this to my other senior members as well as to other AE officers above me, if they would not have thought about this... Another person's take on the issue, and that person with a lot of experience in the program. If you do not mind Arajca I will quote you entirely.

[LTC Don]

I will say up front I know nothing of the force sensor mentioned.  But, will ask for more clarification on the rocketry restriction.  Are you saying that all forms of rocketry are prohibited, including air and water powered?

[jdh]

As was stated above, you have to be able to recover the rocket post launch. We currently have a burn ban here in Texas and are unable to launch rockets, but there is an alternative that is spelled out in the Model Rocketry program for locations that you cannot launch standard rockets in. You can either use pneumatic or hydraulic rockets instead. They pose no fire risk and do not travel as high or as far so they can be launched in smaller areas. One place to consider using as a launch site would be a football field (if you have one there) at the local high school.

Edit: rearranged a sentence to remove possible confusion.

[lordmonar]

Also look at large parking lots that are not used that often.....like a sports arena or county fair grounds.

[Al Sayre]

Back to the original question...
What you are calling a "Force Sensor" is also known in the industry as a "Strain Gauge" or "Impact Sensor" depending on the application. There are several types and many individual models depending on the application. You can google them up if you like.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Are you saying that all forms of rocketry are prohibited, including air and water powered?

Nope, those with engines. Those you mention we can probably find a park or like.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Also look at large parking lots that are not used that often.....like a sports arena or county fair grounds.

We have. They are patrolled by police or security giards, and we are shaken off every time we tried. SDecuring a permit just gets us a no!

[THRAWN]

Have you talked to the Scouts to find out where they are doing their launches?

Have you spoken with peers in other big cities to find out how they are handling the issue?

[LTC Don]

Are you saying that all forms of rocketry are prohibited, including air and water powered?

Nope, those with engines. Those you mention we can probably find a park or like.

Don't be too quick to dismiss air-powered rocketry.  There's some pretty amazing stuff out there available.  For our air-powered requirements, we purchased this kit, and used some of the rockets included in their templates.  Very impressive results:

http://itsablast.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8&zenid=d7c369c121e391f028808118f471afb7

Even if you can't use the Estes products, there are workarounds.  In any case, good luck with whatever you come up with.

[AirAux]

Don, that air stuff is pretty cool.  I am going to bring it up at a squadron meeting.  Thanks for sharing.

[THRAWN]

Air power is very cool. The Rocketry Guide has a whole section about it.