HWSNBN and Harwell

[SunDog]

I'm just in one wing, so can't speak to what sound like your rational points, at least IRT your wings. But in my wing, GOBN is big, real, and smelly. One wing personage told me his squadron doesn't have an airplane, yet he "flys plenty!"  No kidding? You live a stone's throw from the wing drome! They have three airplanes parked there, and you're OPS' sidekick! Of course you "fly plenty"!

I'm not the most perceptive guy, but I can read short words, sound out the others, and count to 100. And I thumbed through WMIRS a few times.  U don't have to be Einstein to recognize the patterns. Heck, ater the cutover, one wing troll was actively discouraging review of WMIRS - what was going on was too, too apparent.  And this is cool - he may be our next wing king. . .think we should expect a bright new day?

Shoot, won't bore you with more stories that you'd have to take with a grain of salt anyway; but grant me the benefit of the doubt, and the ability to see through glass.  I'm not ranting, just reporting. It is what it is, and we can deal with it, transfer, or expire out.

[lordmonar]

What exactly is this GOBN and why is it problematic? I know what the acronym stands for, but what's the issue and why hasn't it been fixed?

In far too many cases, the guys in it are the same leaders who are supposed to squash it, and until someone who cares enough to
start making people knock it off gets involved, it's pretty much a circular situation.

Also in far too many cases......it just does not exist.  At least as far as some people want to believe that it exists.

I actually agree - a lot of times what is viewed from the outside as "GOBN", is actually just standad procedure or people
not willing to make a second phone call.

"Not having someone drive the plane to your house..." isn't the same as "GOBN", same goes for any unit that doesn't have a
"plane, van, radio, L-Per", or whatever is hot this month.

The majority of units don't have a plane, yet those pilots find a way to fly. 

All of them have some standardized way to schedule it, and the wings have to follow the same qualification rules
across the board (mountain, Alaska, and other local training notwithstanding).

I was also thinking of "only the DO's 'freinds" get called out to missions" as well.     The wing alerting officer know his people....and when a mission gets activated he keep calling the same 10 people that he knows can do the job and are available.   Then the new guy MP complains that "I'm not part of the GOBD so I never get called".  It is true he never gets called and it is true he is not part of "GOBD" but it is not true that it is some conspiracy or some malfeasance on part of anyone.

[Spaceman3750]

The raw membership numbers are essentially useless without the "empty shirt filter" and "just punches safety once a month filter".

I also agree that 20-1 is unreasonable in the expectation of staff needed, especially at the unit level.
It reflects a 20-year old paper-pushing, manual image of CAP staffing.

With that said, the charter minimums are far too low, and whether or not 20-1 is too top heavy isn't really
relevent to the under manned and staffed discussion.

If a unit is at charter minimums for more then a year, they have already failed.

Any squadron with less then 25 members is failing.

To achieve the critical mass necessary for a self-sustaining existence, a unit needs at least 50
members on the books with at least 35 reasonably active.

Now, please point out the anecdotal "Senior Special OPS squadrons", etc., etc., that are the exceptions
to the "rule of 50".

Hope you're ready to shut down every unit south of I-80 if that's the case.

[Storm Chaser]

What exactly is this GOBN and why is it problematic? I know what the acronym stands for, but what's the issue and why hasn't it been fixed?

In far too many cases, the guys in it are the same leaders who are supposed to squash it, and until someone who cares enough to
start making people knock it off gets involved, it's pretty much a circular situation.

Also in far too many cases......it just does not exist.  At least as far as some people want to believe that it exists.

I actually agree - a lot of times what is viewed from the outside as "GOBN", is actually just standad procedure or people
not willing to make a second phone call.

"Not having someone drive the plane to your house..." isn't the same as "GOBN", same goes for any unit that doesn't have a
"plane, van, radio, L-Per", or whatever is hot this month.

The majority of units don't have a plane, yet those pilots find a way to fly. 

All of them have some standardized way to schedule it, and the wings have to follow the same qualification rules
across the board (mountain, Alaska, and other local training notwithstanding).

I was also thinking of "only the DO's 'freinds" get called out to missions" as well.     The wing alerting officer know his people....and when a mission gets activated he keep calling the same 10 people that he knows can do the job and are available.   Then the new guy MP complains that "I'm not part of the GOBD so I never get called".  It is true he never gets called and it is true he is not part of "GOBD" but it is not true that it is some conspiracy or some malfeasance on part of anyone.

When I get a mission, I don't always have time to go through a long list of names. If the mission is outside my group, I call the GP/DOS or alerting officer, if one is available, and they get me the people I need. Within my group, I will contact the unit closer to were the target is. If it's within my area, I will call members that I know are active and qualified and will attempt to be as fair as I can in doing so. But when running out of time, I will call those who I know are most likely to be available and to respond quickly, and sometimes that means that the same people will participate multiple times.

We don't have a GOBN in my group (at least not one that I'm aware of), but the universal truth applies here as in everywhere else; if you want to be called, you need to actively contribute and make yourself known. Anyone who actively participates in exercises and other training events will be more likely to receive a call from me than those who don't. And that has nothing to do with a GOBN.

[Eclipse]

Hope you're ready to shut down every unit south of I-80 if that's the case.

They are doing a good job of that on their own...

if you want to be called, you need to actively contribute and make yourself known. Anyone who actively participates in exercises and other training events will be more likely to receive a call from me than those who don't. And that has nothing to do with a GOBN.

Yep.

[SunDog]

 

Again - speaking only about MY wing, AFAIK -  we had a new guy who had only been in 10 or 12 years - fresh face, ya know? I guess the GOBs didn't know if they couldn't trust him - he might have forged that MP, CFI, CFII, ATP, etc. I think they were glad he left - another uppity newbie trying to horn in.

Yep, it's very likely shlepping up to the wing frequently, making your face known, getting in-front of the inner-circle, and establishing personal contact would help - it's certainly human nature. Just generally sucking up as oppurtunity presents. And likely you could break in.  Wouldn't you want to take a shower afterwards, though? And depending on distance, it could become a second career. . .

Joking aside, any kind of manager worth beans would guard against this, and keep all his committed people involved. . .I know they rotated the call-outs amoung the groups for a while - that faded, though.

Some years back I was surprised by a call-out (we still had a plane then) - the other pilot and I were cracking up afterwards - turned out all the GOBs were at a wing social function earlier in the day, and were out of crew rest and/or had a beer or two.  The guy who called me couldn't pronouce my right-seater's last name (the CFI etc. mentioned above)! We had less than 40 MPs in the entire wing, and he'd never spoken our names before. Slowwwww learner, but what's a decade, more or less?

Funny thing is, the CFI etc., and I made every SAREX, participated almost without fail in every evolution - but were just names on a whiteboard, to keep the MP count up, and hold on to aircraft. And I do recognize it is tougher now, with fewer missions, so they are more closely held - like the gentleman who "is in a hurry" sometimes - and calls the same guy(s) as last time. Only the last time is a lot longer interval. Even wing guys can't party every day, so the oppurtunities for those not in the club dwindle. As do the numbers of guys who are not in the club. . .

But hey, no organization is perfect, and if I don't like it, I can wander off, or etc.  Big picture, the searches are getting done, customers are being served, cadets are getting an experience, and so the taxpayers are getting their value, and if the inernal machinations are gacked, maybe that's not so important?

I did get a lot of flying in CAP aircraft, met some good pilots, had some good missions.  Saved a lot of money when a CAP C-172 was in our area, too! So I'll enjoy this final year, save the memories, stay in touch with some good non-GOBs. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

For example: does your average squadron really need two separate people for the PDO officer and Administrative officer?

As an Admin officer with a Master's level, I found that in my last squadron our Personnel officer and I were often (unintentionally) stepping on one another's toes.

Oh, and then there's the O-flight problem - "we don't like to fly those whiny, puking little kids."

That was the way it was in the Senior squadron I was part of (on paper, anyway - unless you were a pilot you really weren't "part of" the unit)...they'd sign their significant others up so they could fly in CAP airplanes (and said SO's never took part in any unit operations), but didn't want to fly cadets from the neighbouring Cadet squadron on O-rides.

It's a lot better now, but the GOBN is still very real in some places.

YMM really, REALLY V.

[lordmonar]

Well....GOBN aside.

To address what Eclipse was getting at about CAP being undermanned.....it is true.....when you compare what CAP SHOULD BE DOING on paper with what it is really doing.

And that is because (as I pointed out in another thread) CAP does not have any unified OPLAN for ES, CP or AE.

In the USAF that is how everything is driven.

OPLANS tell you how many of what type of combat asset you need to fight "the war".
That drives how many squadrons and support squadrons you need to "equip, man and train" to perform wartime taskings.

Until the OPLANs get written....no squadron commander can know if he has enough people to do the job.....because no one has told him what that is.

[/rant]

[FW]

^Yep. Our stratigic plan is (has been) on the table, however the "game plan" is no where to be found. It is still up to us in finding a way to accomplish it. I wonder how many wheels are being reinvented? How many commanders are becoming frustrated? Maybe it's me, but I think it may be time to change tactics.

To use an old phrase drone from 2008; "hope and change". 

Maybe it is possible we can rise above our past?

Ok, I'm off the soapbox.

[Panache]

I was also thinking of "only the DO's 'freinds" get called out to missions" as well.     The wing alerting officer know his people....and when a mission gets activated he keep calling the same 10 people that he knows can do the job and are available.   Then the new guy MP complains that "I'm not part of the GOBD so I never get called".  It is true he never gets called and it is true he is not part of "GOBD" but it is not true that it is some conspiracy or some malfeasance on part of anyone.

I was flat-out told, and this is an exact quote, "If you want to get qualified as Mission Scanner and Mission Observer, you need to go to NESA, because nobody here will fly you for training."  Period.

Interpret that as you will.

[a2capt]

To use an old phrase drone from 2008; "hope and change". 

When I see that, I see that thing I think of a modified 1996 slogan .. 'Dope Hemp 96'.

Which about sums up what I think of the whole thing, sometimes an escape route would be handy.. move to Colorado, for that Rocky Mountain High, 2014 Edition.

[SunDog]

^Yep. Our stratigic plan is (has been) on the table, however the "game plan" is no where to be found. It is still up to us in finding a way to accomplish it. I wonder how many wheels are being reinvented? How many commanders are becoming frustrated? Maybe it's me, but I think it may be time to change tactics.

To use an old phrase drone from 2008; "hope and change". 

Maybe it is possible we can rise above our past?

Ok, I'm off the soapbox.

I bet it could be turned around, truly.  One model might be a National CC with enough butt in his/her britches to force change. Need someone with credibilty, from outside CAP, with the juice to bowl over the status quo. High profile name, with USAF backing and a mandate to fix it. Get a four year term, make everyone mad, and not really care.

None of the issues are that tough - pretty easy to define, pretty easy to fix, if the CC doesn't care about the screams and howling, the BoG, or the wing kings.

CAP would be leaner, likely. Maybe many fewer tracks, fewer uniforms, maybe no cadets or AE. Or, maybe total emphasis on CP, and no SAR. Maybe spin-off one or more of the holy trio. . .New charter for the new century,  lose the SUI and the 18,256 forms? Or some radical combination of changes we haven't thought of.

Could go bad (like at HP a while back). Could go good (GE).

[Archer]

So, still, what exactly is this good ole' boys network? Or is that also CAPSOC classified?

[Panache]

So, still, what exactly is this good ole' boys network? Or is that also CAPSOC classified?

Exactly what it says on the tin.  Although it isn't technically limited to boys.

[SarDragon]

So, still, what exactly is this good ole' boys network? Or is that also CAPSOC classified?

Exactly what it says on the tin.  Although it isn't technically limited to boys.

OKA Clique - A small, exclusive group of individuals; cabal

[Archer]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing how that relates to anything CAP. Can you explain like I'm 5?

[AlphaSigOU]

I was also thinking of "only the DO's 'freinds" get called out to missions" as well.     The wing alerting officer know his people....and when a mission gets activated he keep calling the same 10 people that he knows can do the job and are available.   Then the new guy MP complains that "I'm not part of the GOBD so I never get called".  It is true he never gets called and it is true he is not part of "GOBD" but it is not true that it is some conspiracy or some malfeasance on part of anyone.

I was flat-out told, and this is an exact quote, "If you want to get qualified as Mission Scanner and Mission Observer, you need to go to NESA, because nobody here will fly you for training."  Period.

Interpret that as you will.

Or the local version of NESA (Lone Star ESA in Texas Wing; Alabama Wing Emergency Services School (WESS)), for example. And then once you're qualified, good luck getting on an aircrew!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing how that relates to anything CAP. Can you explain like I'm 5?

I will give you a bit more credit.  I will explain like you are in high school.

I remember back in high school, back when there was still long hair (which I had), polyester (which I didn't) and better music (see the film "Dazed And Confused").  There was always a knot of "cool" kids (I wasn't one) who, if you wanted any sort of societal approval, you had to be part of their "in-crowd."

Fast forward to CAP.  The "GOBN" is the "in-crowd."   Usually this is at the Wing level, but not exclusively.  There is a knot of "cool" officers, most of whom are at least Majors, who have known each other since we still had metal rank and blue epaulettes.  They socialise a lot outside of CAP, and usually they have held their offices at Wing level for a long time, or at least have rotated one another through the various offices.  Ultimately, they control a lot of things in Wing, from promotions to what units get assigned aircraft which ones don't.

If you are not part of that "GOBN," too often your unit is left to wither on the vine, especially if your CC is not part of the "GOBN," and it's even worse if s/he has the courage/guts/intestinal fortitude/insanity to openly dig in against the GOBN.

[Ned]

Yeah, I'm still not seeing how that relates to anything CAP. Can you explain like I'm 5?

Much like the development of some early religions, "GOBNism" is an attempt to make sense of events which would otherwise be incomprehensible by relying on unseen, hidden forces.

Restated, if I honestly believe I deserve to be promoted (or have an aircraft assigned to my squadron, or get my first choice NCSA, etc.) and that does not occur, something must have gone wrong.  Since I already know that I am worthy, the fault must lie . . . elsewhere.  The explanation that best fits the (lack of ) facts is that "those guys" at wing / region / NHQ are playing favorites and making choices based on friendships instead of following the rules.

Thus I can comfortably maintain my entirely reasonable belief that I am worthy of promotion, and I don't have to find fault with my squadron commander or staff (heck, I know those guys and they are good people).  It would be uncomfortable if I had to consider that I might not be worthy of promotion, or if I had to have a frank conversation with my local chain of command.

And since the GOBN always resides several echelons above me, I already know it is futile to actually attempt to correct the problem by working through my chain of command or the IG.  Instead, I will expose it by complaining about it on the interwebs.


(Note:  Every organization composed of human beings will inevitably have flaws.  Sometimes major flaws.  And to paraphrase Garrison Keillor, about half of CAP leaders are below average.  The way to improve or develop an organization is to both address systemic problems and to continuously train and upgrade the skills of the members and leaders.  I have not yet come across an organization that was improved because discouraged members complained about a situation on the internet instead of taking action.  If cronyism is a problem in an organization, you identify and make changes to the system in a way that promotes a meritocracy. 

In CAP terms, you make changes to the governance scheme and supporting regulations, change the leadership, develop Core Values and Ethics doctrine, and improve the professional development system.  Which should sound familiar.)

[Storm Chaser]

If you are not part of that "GOBN," too often your unit is left to wither on the vine, especially if your CC is not part of the "GOBN," and it's even worse if s/he has the courage/guts/intestinal fortitude/insanity to openly dig in against the GOBN.

I guess I should consider myself lucky then, since I haven't experience such things. I hate politics, so I stay away from it. I do my job the best I can and try to help as many people as I can along the way. I've challenged the status quo and unwritten rules many times and have ruffled a few feathers along the way. But because I do good work and help at every level and in any area that I can, that hasn't limited my ability to contribute and progress in the organization.

In fact, a couple of years ago I was the new guy in my unit, group and wing. I had to work my way up from the bottom, but I didn't experience any major obstacles. It's hard to shun out those who are great contributors and become key players. I just focus on getting the job done and help anyone who needs help. I'm not part of any GOBN (if any exist), but I get along with (mostly) everyone. Even if someone doesn't like me, it doesn't matter; my work speaks for itself. I'm a professional and will work with anyone regardless of personality differences.

Is this an anomaly in CAP? I don't know. But I've never felt that I couldn't contribute, achieve my goals and manage my progress in the program. Am I lucky? Is this a fluke? Perhaps. Or perhaps I just do things differently.

Either way, I strongly believe that attitude as well as performance go a long way. If you're one who complains all the time, odds are your opportunities will be limited. If you're a go getter who makes things happen, odds are more doors will open for you. Is this because of GOBN? I would argue that this is despite any (possible) GOBN.