Ribbon Question

[antdetroitwallyball]

^^^Except that increasingly, what gentlemen like Ned and Eclipse tell us about the praise we receive at AFRCC and 1st Air Force notwithstanding, we are only "family" to the Air Force in the "red-haired stepchild" sense.

Some of it is our fault, for isolated incidents of bad behaviour.  Some of it is the Air Force's fault - ignorance of who we are, and unwillingness to educate their personnel on even the most basic level.

Honestly, I see the red-headed stepchild complex existing primarily because the Mission(s) purpose of the Air Force is so much different from the mission of CAP.

The Coast Guard directly serves the civilian public, and is really military in name only. There are Coasties who would try and argue this, but more than likely it's because they fantasize that it is more military that it really is. Coasties from boot camp are not at all trained combatants. They do not have a battle mindset. So, CGAUX, being a civilian entity, does not seem so strange to the active duty Coasties. They integrate in fairly well.

The Air Force on the other hand is a fully fledged military fighting machine. They are trained killers who are given a battle mindset from day one. So maybe not everyone in the airforce carries a gun or flies a plane, but their work still contributes to an overall combat/readiness effort. They do not have a humanitarian mission.

And THIS IS WHERE CAP's distancing lies: CAP is 100% humanitarian, the air force is 99% Combatant. To an airman, there is no intuative way to look at how we as CAP fit into the Air Forces mission. Of course, we do fit into a subset of their missions, but not directly.

I realize this is not news to anyone, but I think a lot of people have the wrong ideas/expectations of what CAP actually is. I can already see it in some of the old timer senior members in my squadron. It's also equally a problem when you get senior members who think that CAP is primarily a Cadet function.

So please, people: If you can tolerate the expectable level of administrative defunct that comes with being part of a large volunteer organization, stay in, keep your expectations in check, and have fun. If you find these expectations to be unacceptable, find another (preferably smaller) organization to volunteer for. It's really quite simple.

If I ever get ticked off by CAP, I will try to resolve my problem first by simply switching squadrons. I hear that sometimes, that's all that is needed....

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As a former Auxiliarist, and living in a city with a cutter home-ported and a small boat station, I disagree respectfully with your assessment of the Coast Guard.

Their mission can, and sometimes does, being put in the line of fire.  During wartime they are placed under control of the Navy.  I had a Division Captain who had served in all three sea services (including combat in Vietnam; retiring as a USCGR Lieutenant Commander) and he would vehemently disagree with the "military in name only" appellation.

I have not been to Cape May but of course have talked to a lot of Coasties who have, as well as officers who have been through the CG Academy.  Many of them had the notion that the CG wasn't really "military"...until they stepped off the bus at Cape May.

And, of course, they are always subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

What you are describing sounds more to me like the NOAA Commissioned Corps - they are a uniformed service but not armed in any way that I know of.

http://www.noaacorps.noaa.gov/

Before about 1990, the Air Force and CAP were much more closely integrated.



I think the working relationship between the Coast Guard and its Auxiliary is such because the Coast Guard is so small - between its active and reserve members, there's not a lot to draw upon, so they almost have to rely much more heavily on their Auxiliary.  During my time as an Auxiliarist I never met a CG member who did not know about us.  Conversely, I would say that, except for senior NCO's and officers directly involved with us, we are (at best) an unknown quantity to Airman Snuffy and (at worst) a bunch of poseurs that s/he has heard all kind of stories about.  "Oh, them.  They walk around the base playing Air Force, trying to get us to salute them and trying to give us orders.  They don't know how to wear the uniform...etc."

That, to me, is the primary difference.

A great deal of the AF people who are aware of us see us for only one thing - cadets (meaning: warm bodies through the gates of Lackland AFB).  I heard a State Director tell us once that our only purpose was virtually to shepherd cadets into the Air Force.

Not a great relationship builder, I think.

[antdetroitwallyball]

Their mission can, and sometimes does, being put in the line of fire.  During wartime they are placed under control of the Navy.  I had a Division Captain who had served in all three sea services (including combat in Vietnam; retiring as a USCGR Lieutenant Commander) and he would vehemently disagree with the "military in name only" appellation.

But it's not a matter of what anyone likes to think, or a matter of "they could be used in war," it's a matter of actual current capability. Their cutters are 100% built for law enforcement. They have no real offensive weaponry to speak of other than that which is capable of disabling a small boat. The new cutters they are building literally have half the weaponry of the old cutters they replace.

When a Coastie gets a rare opportunity to deploy overseas, The Coast Guard pays Blackwater to spend almost TWICE as much time as was the time spent in boot camp to just train these guys for a potential combat theatre.

Sure, the Coast Guard *could,* with an enourmous amount of money and a complete mindset change, turn into a service capable of combat, but right now, they are IN NO WAY capable of fighting a war. They just aren't.

Now, my credentials: I have over 9500+ documented hours working at 5 different types of Coast Guard units. I currently even have berthing at one unit I volunteer at. I've spent a LOT of time talking to current active duty Coasties. A huge percentage of them regularly express their desire to de-militarize.

Conversely, I would say that, except for senior NCO's and officers directly involved with us, we are (at best) an unknown quantity to Airman Snuffy and (at worst) a bunch of poseurs that s/he has heard all kind of stories about.  "Oh, them.  They walk around the base playing Air Force, trying to get us to salute them and trying to give us orders.  They don't know how to wear the uniform...etc."

But WHY are we only known to the higher-ranking desk-flying NCO/officer, and not so well known to the airmen? Because we don't support the air forces's rank and file missions. If we supported many of the air forces main day-to-day missions, we would likely be helping the lower ranking airmen do those missions, and therefore, be better known to them. As CAP, we support the "Forest Mission" (Big picture), not the "Trees missions." Hence, only the higher ranking NCO who is tasked with dealing with bigger-picture USAF issues interacts with us. In the CGAUX, I help out by literally doing a station E-3/E-4's job. I come into the station to help out, and they are like cool: auxie's here, now I can go work out in the gym or work on boat crew instead of standing watch, etc.

Unfortunately, The only interaction an airman may have with CAP might very well be that one time when he was insulted by some off the wall CAP guy. Whereas, most active duty CG guys have a least a few positive experiences with CGAUXies even if they also have had some bad ones as well.

Granted, The CGAUX is also in many ways a first-responder organization. At the station I work at, our we often dispatch our on-patrol aux boats to respond to distressed vessels if they are in a good position of doing so. Very few other volunteer organizations ever function by design as first responders.

Many of them had the notion that the CG wasn't really "military"...until they stepped off the bus at Cape May.

The problem is that Cape May does not really teach the new recruits ANYTHING about how to do their actual job. Cape May is super military-like to serve a filter. They learn military customs/courtesies and physical fitness. That's about it. It's almost akin to a giant Cadet Program for Coasties just a LOT more mentally tough.

The kids graduate from Cape May, and then come to the station I work at, where I, as the unpaid volunteer, TEACH THEM HOW TO DO THEIR JOB (literally). I'm officially qualified and trusted to do their job. They are not. Until they have been at the station for about three months, they are almost literally not even qualified to even answer a phone call.
Point Being: Cape May does not give them any truly usefull skills. By design of the CG system, all skills are learned at the unit. And the unit is rarely nearly as military as Cape May.
Just my two cents....

Looks like I've got this thread off track....

[Storm Chaser]

CyBorg, the Coast Guard Auxiliary seems like a better deal for you than CAP is. You've made that clear through many of your posts. So, why don't you rejoin the Coast Guard Auxiliary and leave all of these CAP "headaches" behind?

This is a serious question, by the way. If I had a better experience with another organization, I would go back in a heartbeat. I mean, why would I be in an organization that causes me such aggravation and has stopped being fun and fulfilling for me? Just a thought.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Storm Chaser, I am not offended by your observation.  I have to be honest and say the thought has crossed my mind more than once.

I was still an Auxiliarist when my wife and I moved to our current residence seven years ago.

I did, of course, contact flotillas in my new area.

Unfortunately, in some flotillas (especially those near major bodies of water, as opposed to more "landlocked" ones) there is a very similar "boat club" mentality to the "flying club" mentality in too many CAP senior squadrons; i.e., flotilla activities centre around talking about one's boat.  I ran into a lot of that here, so I did not stay in the Auxiliary.

I have to be honest and say that I believe the Auxiliary is managed better than CAP at a nearly exponential level from a top-down perspective...but I never got used to all the "elected vs. appointed offices," which I believe to be needlessly complex.  In that sense, I do think CAP has somewhat of an edge.

"Fulfillment?"  In all honesty, I had a lot of fulfillment in my first unit.  We were indeed a TEAM, even though we were often on the brink of being downgraded to a flight (indeed, the unit no longer exists).  I even became Deputy Commander.

In retrospect, I realise I was very blessed to have found such a fine unit on my first go.  As well, we had a partnership with a relatively nearby flying unit, which is where I earned most of my Aircrew qualifications.  We also had strong working relationships with a high school JROTC unit and a university AFROTC unit, whose commander visited us regularly.

That unit seemed very anomalous in comparison with the units I have been in since.  If I had not met the woman who is now my dear wife of almost 15 years and moved, chances are I would still be involved there, if it still existed.

Had that unit been like most of the units I've been in since, chances are I would not have joined.

I realise it is illogical and impossible to expect perfection, especially where human nature is involved.  I am infinitely imperfect.

The reason I tend to favour CAP over the CGAUX is two things: a deep, lifelong interest in aviation (I don't know if AUXAIR still exists in the CGAUX) and the cadets.  I have a much smaller interest in things maritime.  I grew up in a very unsafe environment and a big part of why I have remained in CAP is to do what I can to provide a safe environment for these young people - a place where they can be themselves, learn discipline and have fun at the same time, and know that they will not be bullied physically, mentally or emotionally.

So, sir, I don't know if that answers your questions, but it's the best I can do.

[a2capt]

So, it sounds like you need to find a CAP unit that is as far from an airport as a flotilla is landlocked.
But that's for a different thread..

[VNY]

The reason I tend to favour CAP over the CGAUX is two things: a deep, lifelong interest in aviation (I don't know if AUXAIR still exists in the CGAUX)

It does, but the level of activity varies widely from one district to the next.  In D11S we can all fit in the same 310 - and its all we have.

[mdickinson]

I don't know if AUXAIR still exists in the CGAUX

It does, but the level of activity varies widely from one district to the next.  In D11S we can all fit in the same 310 - and its all we have.

Wow. Here in District 1 South (NJ-NY-CT), the CGAUX has around 50 pilots, 40 observers, and 40 member-owned aircraft. They schedule three or four patrols per day, 365 days a year. 

Suffice to say that in this area, an active pilot or observer in CGAUX has about ten times as many flight opportunities during a given year than his neighbor who is an active pilot or observer with CAP.

[mdickinson]

Interestingly, CAP apparently has ribbons that can be awarded to [CAP personnel] who are credited with distress/non-distress finds. The CGAUX does not.

On the contrary, there are several ribbons that are awarded to Coast Guard Auxiliarists in recognition of operations that save lives. They are described in chapter 11 of the AUXMAN, which is the equivalent of CAPR 39-3.

Awards for those who save lives through their work in the CGAUX include
- Auxiliary Plaque of Merit
- Auxiliary Meritorious Service Medal with "O" device
- Auxiliary Medal of Operational Merit
- Auxiliary Commandant Letter of Commendation Ribbon with "O" device
- Auxiliary Humanitarian Service Award

As for non-distress finds, the CGAUX doesn't have a specific award for them - probably because the CGAUX doesn't really have non-distress finds.

On average, I personnally can take direct credit for about two lives saved per year, and most auxies who participate in the way that I do can expect on average to accomplish the same each year. We don't get any awards or recognition for this unless the circumstances were extreme. However, this is an example where I think we should get a ribbon or something, and yet so such award currently exists. CAP seems to have a better model here....

If you have helped save lives and haven't been nominated for one of the above awards, that's a failing on the part of your Flotilla Commander, assuming he was informed of the assistance you rendered. But it's not too late for someone to nominate you, and the others involved.


Unlike CAP, where virtually all ribbons and awards are awarded by CAP (and may therefore not be worn on the uniforms of other services or auxiliaries), the awards presented to Coast Guard Auxiliarists include some Auxiliary awards and some Coast Guard awards. Although a2capt, and I think one other who posted below, disagree, I am in agreement with VNY that the Coast Guard awards an auxiliarist earns (which are all listed in the "precedence of awards" chart in CAPM 39-1) have in fact been "awarded in writing by competent military authority" and can be worn on the blues uniforms (but not the white & gray).

I've been a member of the USCGAUX [...] and have participated in a few things wherein I earned actual Coast Guard ribbons. For example, the CG's Meritorious Team Commendation award, etc. This is not an auxiliary ribbon, it's an active duty CG ribbon.

Circumstances don't really matter. If it is an actual USCG award, you can wear it.  If it is a USCG Aux award, you cannot.
The difference is the actual USCG award (which the meritorious team award is) fits in the category of a US military award with documentation to back it up.