Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 17, 2018, 02:07:37 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: Memories - IN PROCESSING - the very beginning of enc
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 Print
Author Topic: Memories - IN PROCESSING - the very beginning of enc  (Read 30514 times)
Elioron
Forum Regular

Posts: 123
Unit: PCR-WA-019

« Reply #100 on: October 18, 2013, 05:39:30 PM »

Because for every cadet who gets a little Stockholmy about it, another two will NOT be renewing their membership? You tell me. Why do we have such high attrition rates?

I have never known a cadet to have quit because of how they were treated at encampment.  In fact they are always more motivated and more cheerful.  Those from our squadron that graduated are either still with us, moved away to college, or got too busy with school.

But do go on telling us how you succeed in breaking down AND rebuilding these cadets in a week, and it's all for the better.

She did.  She didn't go into a daily schedule of the rest of her encampment but she described it.  Yes, she also described bad behavior, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is not constructive.
Logged
Scott W. Dean, Capt, CAP
CDS/DOS/ITO/Comm/LGT/Admin - CP
PCR-WA-019
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,059
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #101 on: October 18, 2013, 05:41:13 PM »

She did.  She didn't go into a daily schedule of the rest of her encampment but she described it.  Yes, she also described bad behavior, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater is not constructive.

Aimed more at Collins than OP. As for baby and bathwater...sometimes you just need a blank slate. It's that or a decade of cultural change, and I doubt NHQ will give them that with the new curriculum.
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,512
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2013, 05:44:39 PM »

I am not familiar enough with the theory behind it to explain exactly why this worked,

Then you shouldn't be doing or advocating it.

I am in a better position to advocate it than many, with all due respect. I have experienced it the last two summers, first hand. People that broke down on the first day, became stronger, one cadet in particular made a point of thanking several of us, because we helped him through it and he contacted me recently saying that LDC was one of the best decisions he ever made.

Strong words there.

"... with all due respect" usually denotes a lack thereof, and come across as , "screw you buddy, I ain't listening."

As for your position, is it really better? You've got a couple of disconnected weeks, immersed in the activity, learning while you are doing. Recruit training leaders spend a couple of months in school, and another period of time in an assistant role, before being turned loose with their own recruit company. This lasts between 12 and 18 months. For the remainder of the three year assignment, the function in a train-the-trainer role.

On top of all this, as has been said several times, encampment is not recruit training. Methods from the latter are rarely appropriate in the former.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Elioron
Forum Regular

Posts: 123
Unit: PCR-WA-019

« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2013, 05:58:23 PM »

Aimed more at Collins than OP.

Still not something that can be posted easily on a board like this.  The only answer I can think of would be the full text of the encampment curriculum and procedures.  I'm sure you could get what we use from our Commandant if you like.

As for baby and bathwater...sometimes you just need a blank slate. It's that or a decade of cultural change, and I doubt NHQ will give them that with the new curriculum.

It needs to be taken straight on, and doesn't take nearly that long if you have Senior Leadership that are committed.  Most cadets have completely moved on in half that time.  As I understand it took about two years to reset the focus here.  It involves swift and firm corrections.  Avoiding the culture doesn't make it go away.  Lessons learned in hardship last longer and have more positive impacts.  The general culture that has developed in our society of avoiding conflict at all costs has no place here.
Logged
Scott W. Dean, Capt, CAP
CDS/DOS/ITO/Comm/LGT/Admin - CP
PCR-WA-019
Pulsar
Forum Regular

Posts: 196
Unit: NER-PA----

« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2013, 06:14:34 PM »

Lessons learned in hardship last longer and have more positive impacts.  The general culture that has developed in our society of avoiding conflict at all costs has no place here.

Well said. The stress also helps one to act in stressful situations.
Logged
C/LtCol Neutron Star
PAWG ENC 2013/ AMMA 2014/ NER W RCLS 2014-5 [Salutatorian] / NER Powered Flight Academy 2015

ďA fiery strength inspires their lives, An essence that from heaven
derives,..." - Vergil, The Aeneid

(C) Copyright 2013: Readers who choose to hardcopy my comments are entitled to specific rights, namely: you may print them off and read them repeatedly until you have memorized them and then rattle them off as if you had thought them up yourself; However if asked, you must say they were signaled to you from a neutron star.
Elioron
Forum Regular

Posts: 123
Unit: PCR-WA-019

« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2013, 06:18:39 PM »

The stress also helps one to act in stressful situations.

That's not even the main issue, particularly with an organization like ours.  More to the point, learning a lesson in hardship has a far greater impact on our memory as we had to go through more to get it.  Further, overcoming such obstacles increases confidence and self-esteem to be able to handle situations throughout life.
Logged
Scott W. Dean, Capt, CAP
CDS/DOS/ITO/Comm/LGT/Admin - CP
PCR-WA-019
SamFranklin
Forum Regular

Posts: 190

« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2013, 06:22:15 PM »

Interesting...I think the mindset depicted in "The Lords of Discipline" illustrates exactly what we should NOT aspire to.

Yes, "The Lords of Discipline" is another great example of the point I was trying to make. I haven't read the book, but the film dramatizes the class / caste system in old-style military training by focusing on how the hero (Brian Keith?) develops empathy for the first black student admitted into the corps. Take South Carolina patrician legacies, set the drama at The Citadel, add 1960s desegregation, and add sadistic hazing under the guise of "discipline" and yeah, you get quite the horror story... a senselessly horrific organizational culture where, (spoiler alert!) at story's end the hero realizes he wants no part of the "honor" he had thought the school epitomized. The school presented one image but to the enlightened graduate, that school stood for dishonor, not virtue.  Ronny Cox (?), "I'm a soldier, not a sadist."  Um, sir, if you have to make that distinction, you're already lost. Great stuff.

 
Logged
Pulsar
Forum Regular

Posts: 196
Unit: NER-PA----

« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2013, 06:26:28 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."
Logged
C/LtCol Neutron Star
PAWG ENC 2013/ AMMA 2014/ NER W RCLS 2014-5 [Salutatorian] / NER Powered Flight Academy 2015

ďA fiery strength inspires their lives, An essence that from heaven
derives,..." - Vergil, The Aeneid

(C) Copyright 2013: Readers who choose to hardcopy my comments are entitled to specific rights, namely: you may print them off and read them repeatedly until you have memorized them and then rattle them off as if you had thought them up yourself; However if asked, you must say they were signaled to you from a neutron star.
ol'fido
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,889
Unit: DOTCOTE.

« Reply #108 on: October 18, 2013, 08:43:00 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."
In other words, your encampment is like nearly every other encampment in the country in the way it is organized.
Logged
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006
ol'fido
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,889
Unit: DOTCOTE.

« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2013, 08:45:33 PM »

Aimed more at Collins than OP.

Still not something that can be posted easily on a board like this.  The only answer I can think of would be the full text of the encampment curriculum and procedures.  I'm sure you could get what we use from our Commandant if you like.

As for baby and bathwater...sometimes you just need a blank slate. It's that or a decade of cultural change, and I doubt NHQ will give them that with the new curriculum.

It needs to be taken straight on, and doesn't take nearly that long if you have Senior Leadership that are committed.  Most cadets have completely moved on in half that time.  As I understand it took about two years to reset the focus here.  It involves swift and firm corrections.  Avoiding the culture doesn't make it go away.  Lessons learned in hardship last longer and have more positive impacts.  The general culture that has developed in our society of avoiding conflict at all costs has no place here.
Wow...just wow.  :o
Logged
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006
Pulsar
Forum Regular

Posts: 196
Unit: NER-PA----

« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2013, 08:53:10 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."
In other words, your encampment is like nearly every other encampment in the country in the way it is organized.

astute observation
Logged
C/LtCol Neutron Star
PAWG ENC 2013/ AMMA 2014/ NER W RCLS 2014-5 [Salutatorian] / NER Powered Flight Academy 2015

ďA fiery strength inspires their lives, An essence that from heaven
derives,..." - Vergil, The Aeneid

(C) Copyright 2013: Readers who choose to hardcopy my comments are entitled to specific rights, namely: you may print them off and read them repeatedly until you have memorized them and then rattle them off as if you had thought them up yourself; However if asked, you must say they were signaled to you from a neutron star.
ol'fido
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,889
Unit: DOTCOTE.

« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2013, 09:10:21 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."
In other words, your encampment is like nearly every other encampment in the country in the way it is organized.

astute observation
You posted the information as if your wing's encampment had broken the secret code for running an encampment. I was pointing out that nearly every other encampment in the country has two or more TAC Officers assigned to each squadron and runs a ATS, OTS, LDC, or some other staff training program. Nothing new there.

Apparently, however, you seem to feel that the way they conduct their encampment is superior to every other encampment  based on this.

I think I will follow George Carlin's advice and quit trying to argue with you.
Logged
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 861
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2013, 09:41:25 PM »

Wait, are you saying you never did an AAR for the large encampments you commanded?  Really?

Yes, really.  That's exactly what I am saying - no one asked.


I'm absolutely flabbergasted to read that.
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2013, 09:53:30 PM »

Wait, are you saying you never did an AAR for the large encampments you commanded?  Really?

Yes, really.  That's exactly what I am saying - no one asked.


I'm absolutely flabbergasted to read that.

Frankly, I was when I first got involved as well.  My wing had the advantage of a very involved SD who we considered a partner, so I expect
we were ahead of some wings where the SDs were historically less involved.

It's not surprising, though, when you consider all the other parts of CAP that have zero continuity - ES missions, inspections, etc., etc.
There's tons of data collected, lessons learned, and best practices, yet they generally go no where, and every incident and activity
is treated like an OOBE (out of box experience).
Logged


UH60guy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 236
Unit: VA

« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2013, 09:56:43 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."

Roger, got it. I admit I'm new to CAP- only been in a year and a half, an attended my first encampment this summer. I attended the required staff training to be a TAC officer, and aside from cadet protection stuff, there wasn't any specific block of instruction on how to bring "intensity" or for all intents and purposes, do anything differently than we do at any weekly meeting (except on a longer scale). Obviously I can't apply one year of one wing's staff training to the CAP institution as a whole, but I still honestly don't understand where the expectation of intensity and yelling comes from, other than a TV/movie/misguided view of what military life is like. And there certainly wasn't any training on how to build a team through breaking them down first.

The team building stuff we introduced in staff training was fairly innocuous- something about building a structure out of marshmallows and toothpicks. Plus, team building is built in to other events in our encampment, such as the field leader reaction course (problem solving obstacles), while "intensity" could be gained from cadets being away from home for the first time or on adventure activities. Don't get me wrong, it may have its place, but my burning question is whether cadet leadership (and TAC supervisors) can wield or even need to use such a tool at encampment.
Logged
Maj Ken Ward
VAWG Internal AEO
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,347

« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »

Roger, got it. I admit I'm new to CAP- only been in a year and a half, an attended my first encampment this summer. I attended the required staff training to be a TAC officer, and aside from cadet protection stuff, there wasn't any specific block of instruction on how to bring "intensity" or for all intents and purposes, do anything differently than we do at any weekly meeting (except on a longer scale). Obviously I can't apply one year of one wing's staff training to the CAP institution as a whole, but I still honestly don't understand where the expectation of intensity and yelling comes from, other than a TV/movie/misguided view of what military life is like. And there certainly wasn't any training on how to build a team through breaking them down first.

It's all emulation of mass media - you won't find any of that sort of thing anywhere in any CAP training, yet it's "mentored" into the diaspora somehow.

The current revision of the encampment curriculum, RST, nor 52-16, makes any mention or provide training in regards to intensity.  The new curriculum and RST, which does contain some language and fairly light guidance, is still in draft and not required for use.
Logged


Elioron
Forum Regular

Posts: 123
Unit: PCR-WA-019

« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2013, 01:48:51 AM »

The team building stuff we introduced in staff training was fairly innocuous- something about building a structure out of marshmallows and toothpicks. Plus, team building is built in to other events in our encampment, such as the field leader reaction course (problem solving obstacles), while "intensity" could be gained from cadets being away from home for the first time or on adventure activities. Don't get me wrong, it may have its place, but my burning question is whether cadet leadership (and TAC supervisors) can wield or even need to use such a tool at encampment.

The staff training here is very different, but one thing I should point out is that TAC Officers are not there to instill intensity.  The entire purpose of the TAC Officer is to be the island in the storm, to monitor the line staff so they don't get out of hand and a safe place for cadets having issues (of any kind).  If line staff gets personal, or abusive, or in any way creates a no-win situation for cadets, the TAC Officers are right there to refocus.  Repeat or grievous offenders will be removed from their positions and replaced - one reason that support staff from logistics to food services go through the same selection process and training.

The pre-encampment training may have had a couple of team building exercises, but most of it was leadership, the encampment curriculum, and several sessions each day about intensity.

If you're relying on being away from home or adventure activities to provide intensity, most of our cadets wouldn't be engaged except for about four hours on day five.
Logged
Scott W. Dean, Capt, CAP
CDS/DOS/ITO/Comm/LGT/Admin - CP
PCR-WA-019
Pulsar
Forum Regular

Posts: 196
Unit: NER-PA----

« Reply #117 on: October 19, 2013, 07:36:57 PM »

The question I posit is this: can a cadet, likely around 16 years old in an encampment flight leadership position, navigate that fine line successfully? What training do they have in how to manage the "intensity" so they don't go over the edge? What do we do as senior members to properly prepare cadets to manage such an event? If the training isn't part of it, where are they drawing their experience from, other than "my flight sergeant yelled at me when I was a basic?" I mean, none of the leadership books I've seen reference yelling and intensity as a leadership method.

I know at our encampment, staff shows up four days before for training.  A lot of it deals specifically with intensity - how to instill it, how to keep from going over the line, how to regulate it according to the syllabus.  Even so, we don't leave it entirely up to the cadet staff.  There is a Senior Member with each flight 24/7.  The primary purpose of the TAC Officer is to monitor the cadets and the staff to make sure things are on track and to help those cadets who have issues.  This is important because, just as with everything else we do, cadets will be at a wide range of maturity and experience.  As has been mentioned before, some can't even handle being away from home, much less being held to a schedule.  One almost went home because they couldn't handle communal showers, others are fine with it.  There are a lot of Senior Staff to help out, and pretty much every flight has some sort of breakdown every night.

Is it easy?  No.  It requires vigilance on the part of the senior Cadet Staff and the Senior Staff, but that is the least we can do to help all of the participants to grow.  If it was easy, nobody would come away with anything useful.  I think we owe to them and our organization to build the best people we can.

We had two TAC officers per squadron. Staff trained a lot before it began.
 Additionally, PAWG has a whole other advanced school that not only teaches you to be a first- line supervisor, but is meant to show you how far you can go. It trains you to staff encampment. If you go to Leadership Development Course, you can staff PAWG encampment. -even if you haven't been to RCLS. LDC is much more intense than ENC. It is run by trained Senior Members and a few cadet officers. Instead of staff drilling the flight around, a cadet drills his flight around.
Here's an excerpt from the PAWG cadet training schools website:

"This course provides the necessary foundation for future leaders in both wing activities and at the home squadron and meets core requirements for staffing further Pennsylvania Wing schools. While LDC is not a replacement for, nor does it meet the Cadet Program requirements of RCLS/COS for the Eaker Award, it provides cadets an opportunity to hone their initial leadership skills in a much more hands-on environment through practical leadership training in preparation for continued academic training in RCLS."
In other words, your encampment is like nearly every other encampment in the country in the way it is organized.

astute observation
You posted the information as if your wing's encampment had broken the secret code for running an encampment. I was pointing out that nearly every other encampment in the country has two or more TAC Officers assigned to each squadron and runs a ATS, OTS, LDC, or some other staff training program. Nothing new there.

Apparently, however, you seem to feel that the way they conduct their encampment is superior to every other encampment  based on this.

I think I will follow George Carlin's advice and quit trying to argue with you.

 :( Sorry, I guess I'm indoctrinated. (not saying that's a good thing)  :-X
Logged
C/LtCol Neutron Star
PAWG ENC 2013/ AMMA 2014/ NER W RCLS 2014-5 [Salutatorian] / NER Powered Flight Academy 2015

ďA fiery strength inspires their lives, An essence that from heaven
derives,..." - Vergil, The Aeneid

(C) Copyright 2013: Readers who choose to hardcopy my comments are entitled to specific rights, namely: you may print them off and read them repeatedly until you have memorized them and then rattle them off as if you had thought them up yourself; However if asked, you must say they were signaled to you from a neutron star.
JK657
Seasoned Member

Posts: 207

« Reply #118 on: October 23, 2013, 04:42:27 PM »

I've watched the youtube video that was posted on this thread a few times and I just cannot wrap my head around the thought that the senior leaders think this is what right looks like. I hope things have changed over the last few years since it was made
Logged
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,059
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #119 on: October 23, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »

Saw a 2013 North East encampment vid on YouTube. Caught a glimpse of a formation and a guy in a smokey bear hat...2013.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 Print 
CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: Memories - IN PROCESSING - the very beginning of enc
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.083 seconds with 25 queries.
click here to email me