Uniforms and Rank/Grade

[Майор Хаткевич]

Practical how?

The polo shirt? I think because it's simple as a crow-bar, inexpensive, light-weight, has a useful little pocket for a pencil, and if you have some plain, black oxfords or coaches shoes, and some gray slacks, you are uniformed. You can roll it all up in a re-cycled gocery bag and have it in your car, if you like. I think it's the most tolerable combo for flying in very hot and very humid weather.

For the flight suit, other than not melting, or continuing to burn once you escape the flames? I think it is also simple, has useful pockets to hold multiple pencils, an Afin/Dristan inhaler,  AND a little "last resort" pen light. Also your hat, shades, etc. All on your person, secure, in easy reach.  Even summer-weight Nomex holds heat, so it works O.K. in the cold, maybe with long-johns, or a long-sleeved T-shirt under it, depending on how cold.

Someone said blunt force kills most GA fatal accident victims - which may be accurate, for all I know; not really the point, though, is it? If you get squished, true, you don't care if you're wearing Nomex or an evening gown. . . But if you ain't squished, and you're sitting in a steadily expanding pool of flaming gasoline, Mr. Nomex is your friend. Or, at keast not your enemy, like Mr. Polyester.

I can't quite get past your love of the polo, yet also the flight suit. Any reasons you give for the polo negate the nomex. Any for the flight suit negate the polo...

??

Think of it this way, then. . .I wear the Nomex for protection, until it just gets too hot to be tolerable, then I accept the loss of protection -accept the burn risk vs degraded personal performance from heat effects. Still leaves me 8 or 9 months of flying in Nomex. I 'm covered in Nomex 66-75% of the time. Not as good as 100, better than zero.

But I'd want to keep the polo even if flying in Nomex all the time - for all the reasons not related to flying; it's inexpensive, easy to care for, comfortable enough, easy to haul around, etc. If I wear gray slacks to work, I can stuff it in my gym bag, pull it on in the john or parking lot, and drive straight to a meeting.

It's a minimal uniform, which seems to me practical for most of what I do with CAP.

75% won't do a thing for you when a fire happens in the other 25%. So the safety argument is bunk. Either you need it always,or you don't need it at all.

[SunDog]

Oh shoot, shennigans, I call shennigans!  A 75% chance of being in Nomex in a flamer is better than a zeo percent chance. I think you just don't care for tbe two uniforms in question, and I hear you. The polo is very casual, for sure. Not very military at all. I get the idea some non-aircrew resent the flight suit some, too.

I like that I have the option, and the two suit my needs and prefernces. But it doesn't matter much what we like - just shooting the breeze here. I think (hope!) the polo and bsg are so oervasive that NHQ won't mess with either.

[Garibaldi]

Oh shoot, shennigans, I call shennigans! 

Hey, Farva! What's that restaurant you like, with all the goofy **** on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?

[sarmed1]

I wear nomex everyday of my job in the air or on the ground, and havent died of heat exhaustion yet.

mk

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oh shoot, shennigans, I call shennigans!  A 75% chance of being in Nomex in a flamer is better than a zeo percent chance. I think you just don't care for tbe two uniforms in question, and I hear you. The polo is very casual, for sure. Not very military at all. I get the idea some non-aircrew resent the flight suit some, too.

I like that I have the option, and the two suit my needs and prefernces. But it doesn't matter much what we like - just shooting the breeze here. I think (hope!) the polo and bsg are so oervasive that NHQ won't mess with either.

You don't have a 75% chance. You have a chance 75% of the time, and absolutely zero for 25%.

[abdsp51]

Let's start with why you think Khaki would be adopted? And really blue slides on a khaki anything hideous. We had blue slides and they were phased out.  We need to move forward with the uniform and not back.  There is enough distinction with what we have now to alleviate confusion.  And in case you have forgotten the AF has to approve the uniforms for us and changes, and I do not see them approving blue slides regardless of what color the uniform is.  Switching colors would not be cost effective to membership even with a phase out period.

I never said it would... the original poster asked for thoughts on uniforms... I threw out some thoughts.

It's my observation that many members, as addressed here and other threads in CAP Talk are unhappy with the situation of their uniforms.

Be it the grey/maroon/blue rank slides, the various Corporate uniforms, or the second class citizen status for USAF style uniforms if you're of larger stature or furry of the face.

I suggested Khaki... a strong color... an American color... and CAP's first uniform color.

BTW, Blue on Khaki doesn't look "hideous", the USAF did it for years.

No more hideous then light grey on blue. 

Hate to break it to you but the USAF did not do blue on khaki for years.  Once the AF split from the Army in 1947 the transition began to AF blue.

And yes the dark blue shades of most items for the AF uniform clash hideously with khaki.  Even though grey may be a bland color to some it actually is not bad for us compared to the berry boards of the early 90s. 

[Shuman 14]

If they did it for more than 12 months... its years. 

I do agree that the maroon boards looked God awful and the grey ones are better, but they still look bad.

[abdsp51]

If they did it for more than 12 months... its years. 

I do agree that the maroon boards looked God awful and the grey ones are better, but they still look bad.

You're splitting hairs.  BLUF the USAF did not do blue on khaki for years.

[Shuman 14]

Am I really?

Wikipedia (not the most reliable source I know) states the Khaki uniform was authorized from 1947 thru the 1960s, with a tan Class B continuing into the 1970s.

Sorry that's years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_uniform

[SarDragon]

Am I really?

Wikipedia (not the most reliable source I know) states the Khaki uniform was authorized from 1947 thru the 1960s, with a tan Class B continuing into the 1970s.

Sorry that's years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_uniform

Lighten up Francis!

Here's what he said, emphasis mine:

Hate to break it to you but the USAF did not do blue on khaki for years.  Once the AF split from the Army in 1947 the transition began to AF blue.

The comment appears to refer to accessories, not the uniform itself. I wore khaki uniforms as a cadet, and the only blue items were the grade insignia, the flight cap and belt (also used with the dress blues), and the "Coca Cola" SM patches, so his statement was likely more correct than you seem to think.

[Shuman 14]

[Private Investigator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_uniform

Currently, CAP senior members and cadets also wear the BDU with blue and white name tapes and ultramarine blue and white/yellow rank insignia, similar to what was worn by United States Air Force personnel on the since-discontinued solid green Air Force fatigue uniforms of the 1960s and 1970s. These changes are made to reduce confusion in identifying the military members of the Active Duty Air Force, the Air Force Reserve and the Air National Guard and to differentiate the civilian members of CAP as the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary. With the October 2011 phaseout of the BDU by all U.S. Air Force personnel, the Air Force is in the process of determining the distinctive insignia provisions that will permit CAP to also integrate into the ABU.

From the source above. Even Wiki has uniform thread material .. No pun intended   

[abdsp51]

My source us the USAF heritage center which indicates the khakis were done by 1949.

[Private Investigator]

My source us the USAF heritage center which indicates the khakis were done by 1949.

So what did the USAF wore in Viet Nam according to the heritage center?   

[abdsp51]

Blues.  I'll be diving more into it and looking at some other sources.

[Private Investigator]

Roger that, my link has failed me ...

[Garibaldi]

My source us the USAF heritage center which indicates the khakis were done by 1949.

Are you talking about just the khaki service dress? Because unless I suddenly jumped in age 20 years or so, my dad wore the khaki short-sleeve and pants, blue hat/belt combo in the 60s. If not, apologies for jumping in.

[Grumpy]

Interesting, I thought that was what I wore, 505's, 1505's, I even wore the silver tans for a short time (1959 to 1967).

[Luis R. Ramos]

I also recall the USAF wearing khakis. But lets think about it. Is it we are having some sort of name confusion? What some in this thread are calling khakis, is it not what others refer to Silver Tans?

To me, Silver Tans... is another name for khakis!

See http://usafflagranks.com/usaf_summer_service_dress_coat.html

Flyer

[flyboy53]

I also recall the USAF wearing khakis. But lets think about it. Is it we are having some sort of name confusion? What some in this thread are calling khakis, is it not what others refer to Silver Tans?

To me, Silver Tans... is another name for khakis!

See http://usafflagranks.com/usaf_summer_service_dress_coat.html

Flyer

Maybe he's talking about the Army issue khakis -- what the Army called Shade 61. That uniform had shoulder loops and two buttons sewn into the outside back of the neck under the collar and was worn during the Air Force's transitional period until the mid 1950s. That uniform had a shade-unique service coat or dress jacket was phased out in 1949.

What the Air Force called silver tans -- were actually Air Force Shade 193 -- were worn until 1956 when they were replaced first by 505s and then 1505s.

I entered the Air Force in December 1977 and was issued one set of 1505s as part of my clothing issue. I wore them only the summer of 1978 -- when that uniform was completely phased out for the light blue shirt. I'm not sure if it was shade 1550 or 126. I liked the 1505. It was comfortable and could be starched stiff. The light blue shirt that replaced it was engineered in such a way that the space behind the button hole and the seam always collected lint that had to be removed.