Group CC claims

[NCRblues]

I ran across something very interesting while visiting a neighboring group HQ.

I have known this group CC for about 4 years and he is a nice person and is pretty dedicated to CAP. He is over the weight limit for AF style, so he wears corporate with CAP awards only on it of course.

Over the past few months though, he has been slipping. Making poor choices about staff or disappearing for a few weeks at a time. Enough that people have started to notice and question things about him.

For all 4 years I have known him, he has claimed to have served in the AF at a local base and then overseas (non-combat). He claims he made it up to SSgt, and he has a few little stories about his service time. Last year he posted a shadow box containing a few ribbons and medal stripes in his office.

Only problem with all that, another member did not believe his story and requested his public records. It came back not on file, the NPRC could not find anything with his name on it.

So, now there is a huge debate about this guy raging. What to do? He has not tried to use his "past military" in anyway to benefit him in CAP, yet he lied about this to everyone.

CAP ethic code violation? IG complaint? Push on and ignore?

What's everyone's thoughts on this? We always debate the person who passes themselves off as a hero, what about a person who passes themselves off as an average GI even though he wasn't

[NIN]

CAP ethic code violation? IG complaint? Push on and ignore?

What's everyone's thoughts on this? We always debate the person who passes themselves off as a hero, what about a person who passes themselves off as an average GI even though he wasn't

Integrity issue at the very least, IMHO.

Did the hint/impression of him being an AF person in any way cause his chain of command to advance him over other, similarly qualified candidates? (hard to know, but I'm just saying that this kind of thing can have a sway)

If I let on that I was a successful business manager at my day job, and it caused my wing commander to pick me over another guy for command, and later it was found out that I work at Taco Bell on the morning shift (shhh, I have a penchant for the Caramel Apple Empenadas in the AM), would that be an integrity issue?

[RogueLeader]

While disappearing for a while can be explained by too many things to count, and that making poor personnel choices isn't a crime or outlawed by regulation; I would just forget that.

As to the alleged lying about military service, but not asking for anything about it; I would confront him about it.  I would also ask him to stop, as well as apologize for it.  If that doesn't work, send a notice to the Wing CC for his advisement. 

[NC Hokie]

Was he discharged between September 1947 and January 1964?  NPRC had a huge fire in 1972 that (according to their website) destroyed a majority of the files of USAF personnel discharged between those dates. That could explain the "not on file" answer.

If it turns out that he's not legit, CAP has to pull the plug on him, as I don't think our parent service would look kindly on giving him a pass.

[EMT-83]

I've found that the best way to handle difficult questions is... ask them.

[RiverAux]

Well, has anyone asked him about the prior service stuff yet or are we working off hearsay? 

Has he ever claimed military service on any CAP forms or other official documents? 

[PilotJoe78]

Ask to see his DD214, or better yet his ID card

If he looks puzzled when you ask for his DD214, than he is bogus

[A.Member]

CAP ethic code violation? IG complaint? Push on and ignore?

What's everyone's thoughts on this? We always debate the person who passes themselves off as a hero, what about a person who passes themselves off as an average GI even though he wasn't

Integrity issue at the very least, IMHO.

This. 

Ask him the direct questions.   If it's determined that he's lying, he needs to apologize/be relieved.   Uphold a standard.

[a2capt]

The recent thread of a "Fake Navy SEAL" is of similar nature. The individual hadn't (that was known of) used the embellishment towards influencing CAP matters. However.. if they're going that far, how do you know otherwise?

As for an ID card, unless you retire with benefits, you don't get one. You're supposed to turn them in. Not having one is not an end all.  Doesn't sound like this guy is saying he retired.

[NCRblues]

He claims he was discharged in 1980, so the great records fire would not affect him.

I do not know if he has been asked directly.

I just wondered what everyone thought if he was found to be faking it.

Just an interesting case study I thought. Not claiming "hero or BA" status but still claiming to have served.

(IMHO, CAP could not keep him in command. I believe that would look shameful and sad for CAP if that made it out into the media... but I dont call the shots)

[UH60guy]

Only problem with all that, another member did not believe his story and requested his public records. It came back not on file, the NPRC could not find anything with his name on it.

I'd confront him directly. Don't put too much weight on the NPRC request, records are lost or misfiled waaaaay too often. A DD 214 would be best if you absolutely need documentation, but seriously if he's not making a big deal over it, it may actually be legit. In my experience, most actual veterans are humble while the fakers are the ones out there loudly proclaiming their deeds and qualifications.

[Tim Medeiros]

First question, did his having been former military have ANY bearing on the decision to place him in command?

Second question, is he performing effectively while in command?

If first answer is no and second is yes, then why oust him?  This is also assuming you've gone to him and said "hey look, SM Snuffy back there did an FOIA request on your records, which came back negative, what gives?"

Additionally, did SM Snuffy ensure he had all the proper info for the request?

[A.Member]

First question, did his having been former military have ANY bearing on the decision to place him in command?

Second question, is he performing effectively while in command?

If first answer is no and second is yes, then why oust him? 

It's called integrity and it's one of our core values.

[UH60guy]

It's called integrity and it's one of our core values.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, one could question going behind the CC's back to request records as an integrity issue as well. Too many times I've seen things that are quickly and more simply solved just by talking to someone.

[A.Member]

Too many times I've seen things that are quickly and more simply solved just by talking to someone.

Concur...I made a similar statement earlier - just ask him directly.   Tell him there is concern about his claims and see how it plays out.   

Frankly, our organization, more so than many others, needs to hold our members to a higher standard on these issues.

[GroundHawg]

Ask to see his DD214, or better yet his ID card

If he looks puzzled when you ask for his DD214, than he is bogus

You could also ask for an NGB22. It is possible to serve an entire career and never receive a DD214.

[Critical AOA]

He's most likely legit.  If he wanted to lie to impress folks, he'd claim he was in the Army not the Air Force.   

[BillB]

I was discharged from USAF in 1952, so my records may have been included in the fire. But my DD214 does not show all my activity in USAF. For example is shows no awards, does not show the earned Air Crew wings (which at that time was Squadron authorized and a letter of award to that effect was in my file. I think I may still have a copy of the letter), has an incorrect home address, does not show temporary promotions (reservists called to active duty did not get permanent promotions during this time period) it does include prior Army Reserve time under total service, but the dates are wrong.
It does not show the National Defense medal award (which may not have been awarded during my active duty period) and does not show allof the AFSC I served in.

[MSG Mac]

Was he discharged between September 1947 and January 1964?  NPRC had a huge fire in 1972 that (according to their website) destroyed a majority of the files of USAF personnel discharged between those dates. That could explain the "not on file" answer.

If it turns out that he's not legit, CAP has to pull the plug on him, as I don't think our parent service would look kindly on giving him a pass.

That fire has been blamed for more destruction than the firebombing of Dresden.

[Stonewall]

Let's say you work for a company and while tooling around on your city's public records website you input a person's name from your company's accounting department because the company personnel list is right in front of you and her name is at the top of the list.

Suddenly, her wrap sheet shows all sorts of criminal activity, to include financial crimes.  DUI with a currently suspended license, currently on probation, and within the last 60 days was arrested for domestic battery.

Did you go behind her back?  Is this an integrity issue?  What so you do?

In the case of the group CC, someone exercised the FOIA and requested a record of military service because something didn't add up and it showed that he didn't serve in the military.

What so you do?  Like the accounting lady, this person serves in a position of trust and responsibility.  Is the request for the service record illegal?  Unethical?  Immoral?  You learn that he doesn't have the history that he said he does, now what do you do?