Class B?

[bmiller]

Can anyone tell me what the requirements for a male cadet class b blues?

[Eclipse]

CAP doesn't use that nomenclature as reference to uniform combos, though the USAF recently returned to using "A" & "B" after years of it being out of their lexicon as well.

Generally that would be short-sleeved shirt, no tie, though in some units it might simply mean "no jacket".

More detail about what the USAF considers Class B can be found starting on page 62 here:
http://www.afpc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-130509-049.pdf

[Angus]

Wow, even with the AF's return to that nominclature there's a change from when we used in AFJROTC.  Class A remains the same, Class B was Long Sleeve or Short Sleeve but WITH tie, there was also Class C which was short sleeve and no tie.

[arajca]

The proper nomenclature for Civil Air Patrol is the Service Uniform. This uniform consists of:
AF blue trousers
Blue belt w/ chrome buckle
Light blue AF shirt, long or short sleeve
AF tie - required with long sleeve shirt, optional with short sleeve
Flight cap
black shoes

[Major Carrales]

Really...I am gone from regular CAPTALK conversation and this "CLASS A/CLASS B" thing is still a "hot topic?"

All joking aside, terms like "minimum basic service uniform" and "short sleeved shirt with blue trousers" is a mouthful to say and sore fingers to write.   lol

[Storm Chaser]

Since the Air Force started using this nomenclature (Class A, Class B, etc.) to describe their service uniforms, I think it's acceptable for CAP to use it as well since we wear Air Force style uniforms. CAPM 39-1 is always lagging behind, so there's always going to be disconnects there. Either way, with all the issues we have regarding uniforms, what we call them should be the least of our concerns.

[Luis R. Ramos]

It is in the details of the little things that the importance of the bigger things comes through. In a large city I forgot which one was it. Police was ignoring so-called "quality of life" crimes, and the city had large criminality statistics. When those "Quality of Life" crimes were addressed by the police, the larger crimes came down.

So, as Arajca posts, if CAP does not use the terms "Class A" or "Class B," we should not use them. Otherwise we lose our identity. And where does it end? CAP prescribes, for instance, that we abbreviate grades one way. The USAF uses a different style. So if we adopt "Class A," etc. should we also use the USAF abbreviation for grades? What else? Stop wearing the uniform the CAP mandated way, and wear it like the USAF does?

If we start following that logic, we will lose our identity.

And I believe "all the issues we have regarding uniform" is because a large amount of senior members believe it is acceptable to do things the way it was done when they were in the service, not according to CAP regulations.

Flyer

[SarDragon]

Well said.

I've gotten a hold of all the various iterations of CAPM 39-1, and not a single one of them uses the "Class X" nomenclature. Zero. Nada. Zip. That manual came into existence in 1960, replacing a small handful of other related regs. I have not had the opportunity to look at any of the earlier regs yet.

The use of "Class X" is nothing more than laziness, by just passing on a term that was used back in the '50s by the AF and Army, as "that's the way we've always done it."

[Storm Chaser]

So, as Arajca posts, if CAP does not use the terms "Class A" or "Class B," we should not use them. Otherwise we lose our identity. And where does it end? CAP prescribes, for instance, that we abbreviate grades one way. The USAF uses a different style. So if we adopt "Class A," etc. should we also use the USAF abbreviation for grades? What else? Stop wearing the uniform the CAP mandated way, and wear it like the USAF does?

If we start following that logic, we will lose our identity.

And I believe "all the issues we have regarding uniform" is because a large amount of senior members believe it is acceptable to do things the way it was done when they were in the service, not according to CAP regulations.

Flyer

First of all, let me clarify that I don't like the term Class A or B even within the Air Force; it sounds too "Army" for my taste. I personally never use it. Period.

Now, if you want to argue that CAP or CAPM 39-1 doesn't use the term, then I can see your point. But to talk about identity with regards to the service uniform makes no sense to me. CAP's identity with regards to the Air Force style uniform is intrinsically linked to the Air Force. We wear the Air Force uniform because we're the Air Force Auxiliary. We also call it service uniform because that's what the Air Force has called it for years. Their most recent uniform manual started referring to this uniform as Class A and Class B. Clearly, CAPM 39-1 does not call it that. But a revision of the manual could easily change that and it would be fine since CAP does not own this uniform; the Air Force does.

Let's use the BDU as an example. Years ago, when we wore green fatigues, CAP called this uniform "utility uniform". When we moved to the Battle Dress uniform (BDU), it referred to it as such. Why? Because that's what the Army and, more importantly, the Air Force called it. If we ever get ABUs, CAP will most likely call it that; not the tan BDU or the Air Force-style BDU. CAP doesn't own the names of the Air Force uniforms; the Air Force does.

Now, I don't like Class A, B or C. I don't use those terms. But if someone wants to use them, who cares? The Air Force uses them... barely. So why not CAP? Personally, I don't think is that big of a deal.

One thing I find interesting about CAP when compared to the Air Force is how much time and effort is spent debating insignificant uniform issues. Yet, the worst uniform violations I've seen to date are in CAP (and believe me, I've seen my share in the Air Force).

The use of "Class X" is nothing more than laziness, by just passing on a term that was used back in the '50s by the AF and Army, as "that's the way we've always done it."

You really believe that? I've heard many terms used in CAP that are not used in the Air Force; they mostly come from members that served in the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, etc. I don't know if I would call it "laziness". Is the Air Force "lazy" since it reintroduced this term in their uniform manual? I would venture to say that this is most likely a reflection of the jointness of military operations, but can't tell for sure. Either way, the Air Force decided that it was acceptable to call their service uniform "Class X". It's their prerogative and I wouldn't call that "laziness" on their part. I still don't like the term though.

On a different note, why is CAP wearing reverse U.S. flags on the BDUs? That's not part of CAP's tradition or the Air Force's. That's clearly "Army".

[SarDragon]

Now, I don't like Class A, B or C. I don't use those terms. But if someone wants to use them, who cares? The Air Force uses them... barely. So why not CAP? Personally, I don't think is that big of a deal.

It is a big deal. Let's say that half the squadrons uses that terminology, and half do not.

Now we have introduced confusion and uncertainty. Unit 'A' (user) says the UOD for an event is Class A. Unit 'B' members (non-users) wanting to attend the event have no idea what the UOD is, because Unit 'A' used non-standard terminology. I've seen it happen many times. It's even worse with Class B, because there seems to be differing definitions, as noted above.

The use of "Class X" is nothing more than laziness, by just passing on a term that was used back in the '50s by the AF and Army, as "that's the way we've always done it."

You really believe that? I've heard many terms used in CAP that are not used in the Air Force; they mostly come from members that served in the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, etc. I don't know if I would call it "laziness". Is the Air Force "lazy" since it reintroduced this term in their uniform manual? I would venture to say that this is most likely a reflection of the jointness of military operations, but can't tell for sure. Either way, the Air Force decided that it was acceptable to call their service uniform "Class X". It's their prerogative and I wouldn't call that "laziness" on their part. I still don't like the term though.

Yes, I do seriously believe that. I've watched it going on since I joined as a cadet in 1964. What the AF does with its own uniforms and reg is its business. We operate under CAP regs. When the CAP regs change to incorporate that terminology, then we can talk more about that. Otherwise, let's teach everyone the right info, and move on. This is an area where "tribal knowledge" fails.

On a different note, why is CAP wearing reverse U.S. flags on the BDUs. That's not part of CAP's tradition or the Air Force's. That's clearly "Army".

NFI. I'm as confused as you are on that point.

[Storm Chaser]

It is a big deal.

Let's agree to disagree.

Yes, I do seriously believe that. I've watched it going on since I joined as a cadet in 1964. What the AF does with its own uniforms and reg is its business. We operate under CAP regs. When the CAP regs change to incorporate that terminology, then we can talk more about that. Otherwise, let's teach everyone the right info, and move on. This is an area where "tribal knowledge" fails.

The Air Force has a saying, and a big one at that, about our Air Force-style uniforms. CAP only "owns" it's corporate uniforms. And even then, they can still dictate what and how we wear them. They've done it in the past; they'll do it again in the future. That's part of being their official civilian auxiliary.

But I do agree with your last point. For uniformity and standardization purposes, we should all use the same terminology.

[lordmonar]

Yes.....terminology is a big deal......and yes if half the squadron knows the terms and the other half does not....that's a problem. 

Having said that.......It is usually not a problem....most members learn uniforms not by reading regs...but by learning from their leaders.  So most likely if your squadron uses Class a/b/c/ or Combo 1,2,3,4,5 or Service Dress, Service short sleeve no tie, service long sleeve, service short sleeve tie........then most likely everyone in YOUR squadron knows the terms.

It is when you come to a multi squadron event or a forum like this where it is a problem.

The USAF deals with this by ignoring it....as far as I can tell.   

[ol'fido]

We have threads on the proper "terminology" for various things every so often here on CT. "Type A encampment vs. Summer Encampment". "SAREX vs. Mission vs. SARCAP(one of my favorites)". "BDUs vs Utility Uniform". People will post back and forth on a subject over a few days insisting it must be called one thing or another and if someone is using the term they don't agree with it should stop.

It's JMHO but I think I am smart enough and have been around CAP long enough that I know the difference between term used in casual conversation and terms used in official publications and formal conversations. If I am talking to one of my seniors and he asks me what's the UOD for the staff meeting, I will probably tell him the "golf course uniform" and expect him to know to wear the polo shirt and gray slacks. If a brand new cadet asks me what the uniform of the day for an activity is, I am probably not going to say "wear your fatigues" and expect him to know what I am talking about.

We here in CAP use terms all the time that are not technically correct. We say "BDUs" instead of the more formal "Battle Dress Uniform". We say O-rides instead of Orientation Flights. When I was in the army and someone said the UOD was "spits and starches", I knew what that meant. I have called a CAPF 101 Card a "one oh one card" for decades and will probably continue to do so until I retire or die whichever comes first even if they change the card to another form number. How many of you still use the term "201" to refer to your personnel file?

We just have to remember that when we are dealing with formal communications whether verbal or written we need to use the correct and accepted terminology and not local slang. If two old steely eyed Auxiliaymen want to talk about going to "Type A" and that "SARCAP" way back when, then they should be able to without the "Terminology Police" having a high speed come apart. If we can't figure out the difference, we need to hang up our "blue suits, fatigues, and green or blue bags" and go find another hobby.

[PHall]

The point that some are trying to make here is that without a common "language", communication becomes almost impossible.

If the folks at Squadron "A" call them "Class B's" and the folks at Sqaudron "B" call them "Blues" and the folks at Squadron "C" call them "that Air Force uniform".
Then how would you know what uniform they're talking about?

Using the terminology that is in CAPM 39-1 ensures that everybody is speaking the same language.

[ol'fido]

That is what I am saying for FORMAL communications.

On a side note: WIWAC, there were only two uniforms for us. "Blues" and "Fatigues" so it was pretty simple. Most of us didn't have Service coats or even long sleeve shirts. You were lucky if you had a full set of blues and fatigues that had been purchased at clothing sales and not picked up at a surplus or thrift store. We might occasionally get a few service coats and/or field jackets from somewhere. They went to whoever they fit that had been there the longest.

[AngelWings]

The point that some are trying to make here is that without a common "language", communication becomes almost impossible.

If the folks at Squadron "A" call them "Class B's" and the folks at Sqaudron "B" call them "Blues" and the folks at Squadron "C" call them "that Air Force uniform".
Then how would you know what uniform they're talking about?

Using the terminology that is in CAPM 39-1 ensures that everybody is speaking the same language.

Or be squadron "D" that teaches all known terms and not make much of a scene about it 

[Storm Chaser]

I guess I have to let my squadron know that the uniform of the day for this Monday is the "minimum basic service uniform". Everybody thinks we're wearing "Blues" and I don't want them to be confused. Besides, since Blues is not an approved term in CAPM 39-1, we should stop using it, right? I'll keep that in mind next the time I order something from "CAPMart".

[AngelWings]

I guess I have to let my squadron know that the uniform of the day for this Monday is the "minimum basic service uniform". Everybody thinks we're wearing Blues and I don't want them to be confused. Besides, since Blues is not an "approved" term in CAPM 39-1, we should stop using it, right? I'll keep that in mind next the time I order something from CAPMart.

Also, we should definitely not say fatigues, utilities, battle dress, blue battle dress uniform, BlueDU, BDU, or BBDU. It is the Battle Dress Uniform and Blue Distinctive Field Uniform.

[MIKE]

Also, we should definitely not say fatigues, utilities, battle dress, BlueDU, BDU, or BBDU. It is the Battle Dress Uniform and Blue Battle Dress Uniform.

Try again.

[AngelWings]

Also, we should definitely not say fatigues, utilities, battle dress, BlueDU, BDU, or BBDU. It is the Battle Dress Uniform and Blue Battle Dress Uniform.

Try again.

Whoops, thank you!