Process & difficulty in wing commander

[NCRblues]

Sky King, Sky King, this is Crystal Place with an EAM message........

Sir, we have a properly formatted emergency action message, permission to authenticate?

[SarDragon]

 The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.

[ColonelJack]

No matter where you go, there you are.

Jack

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

No one saw the direct hit, so it's an unconfirmed hit. Either way, this is the CIVIL air patrol, and everyone knows we shouldn't have bombs.

We are only allowed weapons of mass distraction.

[Need2know]

I enjoyed some of the comments, some are quite hilarious. 

Researching CAP regulations, there isn't much on relieving a Wing Commander, just allowing the member to retain their CAP rank if they performed well.  Also, to alleviate any concerns, I have no vendetta, and I have no anger towards our current Wing Commander.  The person is just out of his element to effectively lead.  He has no goals or plans to accomplish any of our missions.  He has been cited by National Headquarters for "lack of leadership", but still remains in the position.  He shuts people down; doesn't motivate his staff to excel; a hostile environment exists; he retaliates against members.  Basically he is the poster child for the "Peter Principle". 

When I used to write NCO and Officer Evaluations, I always looked at leadership versus failureship based upon the goals and accomplishments set forth.   The Wing is leaderless under his command, thus my comment on his "failureship".  Many event execution planning is "JIT", just in time, usually, within the week of the event even though subordinates mention them in staff meetings.  He does not allow prior planning.

He normally rejects assist him to become a better commander (I am a former Air Force Wing Commander), but he refused any assistance. 

In my business, he would be considered a "toxic leader", and I would have fired him.

So, going back to my original post, has there been a successful firing of a Wing Commander?

[ColonelJack]

I do know that, during the reign of HWSRN, Wing Commanders became something of an endangered species, since he could (and would) pressure Region CCs to dismiss any that weren't doing things the way he wanted them done.  Were these dismissals for cause?  That depends on who you ask, I suppose.

But the prevailing sentiment is that HWSRN was pretty blatant about using his National CC position to influence and punish whenever he felt like it.

Apart from his tenure, however ... I don't know.

Jack

[jimmydeanno]

There have been plenty of instances of Wing Commanders being fired.  I can't really think of one that resulted solely from varying thoughts on the person's leadership style.

However, the toxic leaders that you talk about usually do something that violates our regulations.  They mishandle IG complaints, get put on logistics freeze, have their Wing shrink and almost collapse, etc.  Many times in those situations (bad leadership), the Region Commander will suggest that they resign. 

They aren't going to fire them simply because some members may disagree with their leadership style, but if it has tangible results that can be tied to that leadership style, sure, Wing Commanders quietly leave all the time.

[a2capt]

The short timer of a couple commanders back, in CAWG may be such an example..

[Eclipse]

So, going back to my original post, has there been a successful firing of a Wing Commander?

Yes.

[Treadhead]

I enjoyed some of the comments, some are quite hilarious. 

Researching CAP regulations, there isn't much on relieving a Wing Commander, just allowing the member to retain their CAP rank if they performed well.  Also, to alleviate any concerns, I have no vendetta, and I have no anger towards our current Wing Commander.  The person is just out of his element to effectively lead.  He has no goals or plans to accomplish any of our missions.  He has been cited by National Headquarters for "lack of leadership", but still remains in the position.  He shuts people down; doesn't motivate his staff to excel; a hostile environment exists; he retaliates against members.  Basically he is the poster child for the "Peter Principle". 

When I used to write NCO and Officer Evaluations, I always looked at leadership versus failureship based upon the goals and accomplishments set forth.   The Wing is leaderless under his command, thus my comment on his "failureship".  Many event execution planning is "JIT", just in time, usually, within the week of the event even though subordinates mention them in staff meetings.  He does not allow prior planning.

He normally rejects assist him to become a better commander (I am a former Air Force Wing Commander), but he refused any assistance. 

In my business, he would be considered a "toxic leader", and I would have fired him.

So, going back to my original post, has there been a successful firing of a Wing Commander?

My friend,  I had an experience very much like yours, except it involved a squadron commander--a retired AF major.  I was a 21yo SM 2/Lt back then.

Very difficult situation since I was raised to respect my elders and those in authority.  He was given to rants which usually involved profanity and personal degredation of his target of choice.  Since I was the youngest, it seemed I was his most frequent victim.

The cadets hated him.  Since I was close to the age of the cadets, they often brought their complaints to me.  No one dared bring their gripes to him personally for fear of being eaten alive.

It ended up he was relieved by tje Group CO based on numerous incidents and complaints.   

Bottom line, I always felt bad about the entire affair.  It was a learning experience in dealing with difficult people.  I wished I'd handled the matter differently than I did.   I doubt I could have made a difference in the long run.  He'd amassed a good number of enemies in his tenure.  His downfall was inevitable.

The Group cdr interviewed me as part of the investigation.  I told the truth.  My CO was relieved of command prior to the next meeting.  He blamed me saying that I had been disloyal to him.  Maybe I was.  But just the same I had to be honest with the Group commander in what I saw during the sq cdrs tenure.

[Eclipse]

Unless you have something which could be a sustained complaint, the odds are there's little recourse.

Generally, the only way wing, and even unit CC's can be removed is for clear, objective violations of regulations, multiple poor CI's, or malfeasance / negligence in regards to CAP funds or property. Barring those, which generally have to be habitual and serious, NHQ will not generally consider removing a Wing CC early.

"Failure of leadership" is not a sustainable complaint, nor is it likely to have any significant meaning to Region or NHQ.  Issues like this presuppose that
no one else is aware or cares enough about a wing CC except the person making the allegations.

Your wing CC reports to a Region CC and has to interact directly with CAP-USAF.  These people have eyes, ears, and opinions, and if they don't see an issue, there likely isn't one.

My view has been that NHQ is very conservative in regards to things "rocking the boat", and are much happier with a Wing CC who quietly maintains
the ship, while changing very little (including long-term "issues"), then someone who will be a "Leader!", implement radical change and risk alienating the quiet majority.