Pledge of Allegiance Not Allowed?

[Jack172402]

Hey all, Id like to inform you about a disturbing new "regulation" I was informed about.

Recently I attended a SAREX in OKWG, and when a senior member suggested we should say the pledge of allegiance, etc, he was surprisingly shot down by the other staff present, who loudly announced; Civil Air Patrol members are *not allowed* to say the pledge of allegiance, or render proper national courtesies while wearing CAP uniform...


Last I checked we are all US citizens, and this is the USA, not Cuba.

So I ask: is this legitimate, if so (why on Earth??), if not, how do I go about informing my superiors that this is NOT okay, not okay at all...because it sounds like absolute bullcorn to me.

Thanks all.

[RiverAux]

Obviously they were wrong to say that it isn't allowed, but a SAREX is not the place for it.  A SAREX is supposed to represent a time-sensitive operation and should be conducted as you would a real mission.  If an IC took the time to say the Pledge on a real mission I'd yank his quals if I had that authority. 

[MIKE]

When in a military-style uniform, stand at attention and remain silent.

The pledge is not normally recited when CAP members are in
formation. Reciting the pledge when in military-style uniform, let alone
when assembled in a formation, is somewhat redundant – the uniform
and all the other trappings of national service are themselves symbols
of a special devotion to America.

[Jack172402]

Im fully aware of that. However, what was said was not that it wasnt proper. What was said is that its not allowed under any circumstances, at all. Not just at a SAREX.

[jeders]

Well then whoever said that was seriously misinformed.

[NIN]

I had the IG jump in my stuff one year becausevwe did not open our meeting with the pledge in formation. I politely opened the 151 and showed him where we don't do that. Been that way for years.

[tsrup]

As what was quoted by Mike above,

Not allowed?  No...


Not customarily required?  Yes

Not to mention if everyone is in a military style uniform, who would be saying the pledge anyways?



My personal opinion follows that of CAPP 151, the fact that you are in uniform and serving that flag is pledge of allegiance enough. 

I have seen though, the same people who tend to push the pledge generally mean well but are the same people unfamiliar with customs and courtesies.


So yeah, your staff aren't some communist anti-patriots who are burning the flag on the weekends, but rather following the spirit of the regulation, even though the delivery of the directive was (according to your account) too far in the other direction.

Personally you wont find the pledge at meetings or events I run for the reasons stated in CAPP 151. 

[RRLE]

The differences between CAP and the USCG Aux are interesting in this matter.

Auxies almost always recite the pledge at meetings. That is each member says it.

And uniform or not, then hand goes over the heart, Auxies do not salute during the pledge.

Not so long ago, two USCG officers who are district directors of the Aux (DirAux) called that into question and issued an directive that the during the pledge Auxies were to stand silently and salute. After it was pointed out on a public board that the new regulation violated the Auxiliary Manual (AuxMan) which is promulgated by the Commandant of the USCG, the Chief Director of Auxiliary (ChDirAux) overrode the DirAuxs and reinstated the old rule:

1. Stand
2. Hand over heart
3. Recite as a group.

[JeffDG]

Last I checked we are all US citizens

Check again.

Almost all of our meetings here open with the pledge, which I personally don't feel appropriate participating in, as my allegiance remains with Her Majesty the Queen, her heirs and successors, and the United States will not accept my allegiance at the present time even I wished to give it.  That said, I stand respectfully and remain silent while others participate.

[RiverAux]

Auxies almost always recite the pledge at meetings. That is each member says it.

Yep, at meetings we do.  However, not at operational events (that I've ever seen). 

[cap235629]

Last I checked we are all US citizens

Check again.

Almost all of our meetings here open with the pledge, which I personally don't feel appropriate participating in, as my allegiance remains with Her Majesty the Queen, her heirs and successors, and the United States will not accept my allegiance at the present time even I wished to give it.  That said, I stand respectfully and remain silent while others participate.

I get more tweaked when one of our members always pipes in "Let us pray" after we open with the pledge and goes on to pray.

I am a very religious man.  I happen to be of a faith that is STILL being oppressed by "Her Majesty the Queen, her heirs and successors" as it has been for 800 years by her predecessors....

CAP is a SECULAR organization funded in part by PUBLIC funds.  I feel it is inappropriate to pray at a CAP meeting and infringes upon my freedom of religion.  And before the barracks lawyers start, by allowing this prayer it runs afoul with the establishment clause IMHO.

steps off soapbox....

[Майор Хаткевич]

Last I checked we are all US citizens

Check again.

Almost all of our meetings here open with the pledge, which I personally don't feel appropriate participating in, as my allegiance remains with Her Majesty the Queen, her heirs and successors, and the United States will not accept my allegiance at the present time even I wished to give it.  That said, I stand respectfully and remain silent while others participate.

I particularly like the "we're not Cuba" comment.

While I was born at the tail end of the USSR, every day in school my mom had to recite the USSR equivalent of the Pledge of Allegiance. They do the same thing here.

Well, from what I've observed in school, it's been so overused (every day in school), that the kids neither give a [darn], nor do they think about the words. Such things have to be understood, not shoved down our throats. As a student of history and an atheist, I do not say "under god" (I go silent for that portion). When it is appropriate, I do stand at attention and recite the rest of it.

[flyguy06]

Obviously this person is wrong. We open all of our meetings withthe pledge. Thats why I say CAP needs to be more standardized.

[tsrup]

Obviously this person is wrong. We open all of our meetings withthe pledge. Thats why I say CAP needs to be more standardized.

There is a standard.
Some people are following it, some are not.

If you recite the pledge while you are in a military-style uniform, you are wrong.

[lordmonar]

Im fully aware of that. However, what was said was not that it wasnt proper. What was said is that its not allowed under any circumstances, at all. Not just at a SAREX.

So...your second hand information that "someone said" it was not allowed is a supposed to suprise us?

Let it go.  There is nothing to see here other then a chance to troll CAPTALK.

[a2capt]

If you recite the pledge while you are in a military-style uniform, you are wrong.

So opening the weekly meeting, SLS, CLC, Wing Conference, etc. with the Color Guard coming in, posting the Colors, turning to the Colors, and reciting the Pledge is wrong?

[tsrup]

If you recite the pledge while you are in a military-style uniform, you are wrong.

So opening the weekly meeting, SLS, CLC, Wing Conference, etc. with the Color Guard coming in, posting the Colors, turning to the Colors, and reciting the Pledge is wrong?

Yes.

If you are in a military style-uniform the proper thing to do when the pledge is recited is to stand at attention and remain silent.  If you are at a non-CAP function and they recite the pledge that is fine.  If you join in then you are not following proper customs and courtesies.

It's not difficult, read CAPP 151

[a2capt]

Well, then if everyone at the meeting is in uniform, no one can say/lead/etc. So everyone stand there for 20 seconds silently. Yay.

Whatever.

[LGM30GMCC]

If you're posting the colors, the more appropriate thing than the pledge would be to play the National Anthem or To the Colors, rather than recite the pledge. 

[tsrup]

If you're posting the colors, the more appropriate thing than the pledge would be to play the National Anthem or To the Colors, rather than recite the pledge. 

This ^