The wonderful World of covers.

[Major Carrales]

Which is what I was saying... Sort of....

There is also a stipulation that the IC/HMIC can make changes to the uniforms. Here in Indiana, blue berets are authorized. And yes, I wholly believe they show a very strong professional appearance over the PC, that is all I am trying to say.

We get it...you want to wear a beret.   In all honesty a beret is more of a "dress uniform" item in my opinon and looks best with a service coat type conversation than on a field uniform.  Field uniforms are of utilty, not looks. 

A few years back I spoke with a legislator at an education conference that said that he had an issue with servicemen testifying before the legislative body in field uniform.  That a set of cammo uniforms was for being "out in a forest or desert" and fight suits were for flying activities (an not for commercial flights) and that the service dress was more approporate for Congressional hearing and the like.  I told him of the concepts behind the reason it was worn as I understood it and he replied that propriety of dress was one of those little details that distinguished an individual's ability to show respect.

This made me think about a few things en re uniforms and uniform items.  Service Dress uniforms and field uniforms are based on different sets of design elements.  Dress is based on traditions that at one time served a utilitarian purpose (the four pockets on service coats, chin straps on service caps, sleeve braid that once indicated a "cuff," decorative items from the past like Cavalry Stetons and the like), field uniforms are for the field (visors to improve vision and reduce glare, helmets to provide protection from grazing shots, pockets designed to support items in the field, patrol caps with cold weather ear protection and the like)

A beret, by your own words, is more about tradition and appearance.  Why the US Army adopted it system wide was, in my opinion, an attempt to create a new tradition.  Was it worn in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan?   I don't recall seeing many photos of my deployed friends with it in the filed.  It is, however, as iconic to this era as "crush caps," "pinks and greens," "ike jackets" and the "steel pots" are to the WWII era.  I would say mission is accomplished.

[Nathan]

N the field, nothing is allowed for head gear other than a Kevlar helmet, in the military.

How in the world is a pc more rugged than a beret when the pc that I am wearing has been taken care of looks like a wrinkle grenade was thrown at it, and the beret  gets tossed in a box and put into my pocket every time I wear it? The PC is not tougher or more rugged than a beret. Show me some proof

To do so, all I would need to do is take a picture of my beret, and then take a picture of my field cap (neither of which are with me at the moment).

Beret: has a small hole in it from this one time someone sat on it with a pen sticking out of their pocket. I've worn it maybe four total weeks, and never in a "field situation", mainly because I think it would probably get ripped to shreds if I actually took it into the woods. In wet weather, it tends to try to reform itself and absorbs water. In the summer, it tends to absorb sweat and heat, and pool it at the band of the hat.

Field cap: Been wearing it since I was a cadet. I've ironed it a couple of times, but for the most part, I don't have any problems with noticible wrinkes. I have worn it in bad weather, heavy woods, and at all temperatures, and been fine with it. It keeps the sun out of my eyes, doesn't require me to take care of it. Oh, and it's the exact same one my dad wore back in the eighties in the USAF.

There's no contest here. The beret is in no way a field hat. And again, you have yet to demonstrate how the aesthetics a beret provides can outweigh the pure functional glory we find in the field cap, especially when the patrol cap isn't ugly and doesn't detract from our professional look. I'm not a Barbie doll.

Seriously, the BDU cap was designed to function in combat environmments. You have a pretty heavy burden of proof to demonstrate that they somehow are insufficient for the conditions of even the more extreme CAP missions, ESPECIALLY since you are amusingly holding up the beret as a superior class of headwear for such conditions.

[754837]

Here is a good article on the subject -

http://www.nola.com/military/index.ssf/2011/06/army_ditches_black_berets_in_f.html

[Eclipse]

Here is a good article on the subject -

http://www.nola.com/military/index.ssf/2011/06/army_ditches_black_berets_in_f.html

"It's hot, it doesn't keep the sun out of your eyes, and you need two hands and a mirror to make sure it's on straight. After 10 years of complaints, the Army is all but ditching the black wool beret and allowing soldiers to go back to the old brimmed patrol cap for their everyday duties.

U.S. Army Sgt. Nathaniel Glover from Florida was photographed in his black wool beret in the port city of Zamboanga, Philippines, on March 16 2002.
"It's the military equivalent of being able to wear a baseball cap to work," said Col. Pete Brooks of the South Carolina Army National Guard. "Wearing the beret in 100-degree South Carolina heat was like wearing a wet piece of black wool on your head."

Yep.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

All well and good, I understand the workings of the PC, I have worn them long enough, and berets long enough to know the ins and outs of them both. Yes, I still prefer the beret, I still feel that it is a more professional image, and I wholeheartedly believe the beret has the same functionality as the PC, the visor is obsolete. I don't think any one will be able to dissuade me in that either.

So far as the Army Command goes with their polls and statistics, they never asked me WIWAD, nor did they ask anyone else I know, otherwise I'm sure their polls would have come out differently. And their history of decision making on uniforms goes, it's spotty at best. Just look at the ACU pattern... How did that pan out? Oh yeah, there is already a new pattern because it works better. The cut is awesome, but the pattern only works if you are searching for someone wearing it laying down in gravel 300 meters away.

But any ways, all is good, I will continue to wear mine in Indiana wing, and be proud of it.

[Nathan]

But any ways, all is good, I will continue to wear mine in Indiana wing, and be proud of it.

Why are you proud of it?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

But any ways, all is good, I will continue to wear mine in Indiana wing, and be proud of it.

Why are you proud of it?

Why wouldn't I be? I am allowed to wear a USAF style uniform, and wearing the headgear I prefer. I am proud of every uniform item I wear.

[bflynn]

Why are you proud of it?

Why wouldn't I be? I am allowed to wear a USAF style uniform, and wearing the headgear I prefer. I am proud of every uniform item I wear.

So it's about you?

[johnnyb47]

Why are you proud of it?

Why wouldn't I be? I am allowed to wear a USAF style uniform, and wearing the headgear I prefer. I am proud of every uniform item I wear.

So it's about you?

Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be about us in at least some small way?
If we dislike putting on the uniform, flying, ES, Cadet Programs or any part of it why do it?
If we're just here due to some overdeveloped need to serve I'm sure we could find other opportunities to do so while actually enjoying at least some part of it.
I like what we do. I like what CAP is all about. I like that I have an opportunity to wear a uniform while performing my duties and wear it with pride. Is that wrong?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Why are you proud of it?

Why wouldn't I be? I am allowed to wear a USAF style uniform, and wearing the headgear I prefer. I am proud of every uniform item I wear.

So it's about you?

I don't think I understand your question...
If you mean my opinion of which looks better, yes, I think the beret looks better.
If you mean my opinion of which works better, neither, neither really works better than the other.

Other than that, it should always have a good bit to do with you. What you are proud of, what you think would look better and what you think would be a more professional appearance. That is the sort of thing that promotes change in things that are stagnant, a desire and an opinion that something would be better than what is currently the norm.

[abdsp51]

Having been a beret wearer for 12 years, I preferred it to a PC. Honestly properly worn it looks way better than a PC.  Most soldiers I saw in one outside of certain groups didn't wear it right to begin with.  In the field or deployed it was a PC, boonie or helmet depending on the circumstances.

[johnnyb47]

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_in050131.pdf

CAPM 39-1 table 1-3 (Additional Items that may be Authorized by Wing Commanders)
Item 4

Only blue berets may be authorized for special purpose wear. Berets provided
at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY.

I'd say authorization needs have been met. Now you can choose which you prefer and be proud of that choice while still being within reg in Indiana.
Just in case anyone was thinking it's being worn in SPITE of regulation as a matter of preference.
I was bored... thought I'd look for the the Wing Sup.

[CAP_Marine]

The visor is obsolete? Is shade out of style now?

[FlyTiger77]

Personally, I am glad the Army has moved back to the patrol cap. I was never a fan of the beret for everybody. And, I like having a visor to keep the sun out of my eyes.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Jimmy, I'm not home right now so I can't look it up easily, but that part of the 39-1 has been changed in an iCL allowing for the wear of NBB beret to be worn at all times in the BDU uniforms.

EDIT: to add that I am almost positive about the ICL change.

[Eclipse]

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf

j. Blue Beret awarded at National Cadet Special Activity.  The standard AF blue beret
with the Blue Beret activity hat device may be worn with the BDU uniform after the completion
of the activity.

[ColonelJack]

I shall never understand the dislike of the beret by Americans, given that it is so widespread in use virtually everywhere else in the world.
AAhhhhdoannngettitt.

Well, it's an acquired taste, that's for sure.  And I would never presume to speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I dislike the beret:

Because, in my never-to-be-humble opinion, it's a silly-looking hat.

Jack

[lordmonar]

You know the beret is sort of like base ball.....some people love it....and some people just don't get it.  There is nothing that any side is going to say that will convince them to change their minds.

Bottom line in CAP.

Is that if you follow the regs....and your chain of command.....wear it...or don't.

[SPD6696]

The beret looks, if worn correctly and maintained, really good.  However, it's uncomfortable, impractical and difficult to manage.  It's a hat that , if worn at all, should be worn with a service uniform, not a combat/utility uniform.

The beret, for those that can't wear it, has a mystical appeal.  Like a siren's song of headwear, for the unwitting and unwary and unknowing.  It promises things like cool-guy factors, cool-guy looks, cool-guy creds.  But, all it delivers is a sweaty head and squinty eyes in the summer, and snow and rain in your eyes in the winter.  For those that have done something out of the ordinary to earn it, such as Special Forces, CCT, PJ, Ranger, it is a symbol of their commitment, and they wear it stoically and proudly, and uncomfortably, as a symbol of their suffering to be what they are.  To everyone else, that is handed one, it's a silly hat.

Embrace the patrol cap.  Embrace the barracks hat (service hat?).  Appreciate function over form.

[lordmonar]

Appreciate function over form.

Most of our uniforms and items have no function.....so there goes the whole idea of the military style uniform.