The wonderful World of covers.

[Sapper168]

In my opinion neither the patrol cap nor the beret look MORE professional than the other.  Both can look good and professional or shabby and unprofessional depending on who has been taking care of them and is wearing them.

Its not the uniform but the person wearing it.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I guess I could take time and do things that aren't authorized to the PC, technically not authorized, definitely not functional, to make it look better. Like putting cardboard in it to force it to hold shape, the unauthorized thing being that it is supposed to be stowed in the cargo pocket, and that can't be done with cardboard in it. But no, that is the look it always ends up with, like dirt. The rest of my uniform is pressed and nice, but the PC takes away from that by looking like a dirt bag. Like I said just my opinion.

And yes, it is very near and dear to me, but not so near and dear that I would cry over it were it to go away. I just have a personal opinion, and it is a more professional appearance.

[754837]

Berets should be reserved for units such as US Army SF, Rangers & the 82nd Airborne. A hat does not make a person or a unit elite or look elite. If a person has not earned one the hard way (SF, Rangers, 82nd) they look like a poser.

By Ranger I mean US Army Rangers not Hawk Mountain.

I think CAP has a great wardrobe of professional uniforms.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yeah, it's awful for regular Infantry and Air Assault Infantry to wear a beret.

[jeders]

Yeah, it's awful for regular Infantry and Air Assault Infantry to wear a beret.

Yeah, those awful Infantry posers [/sarcasm]

Berets should be reserved for units such as US Army SF, Rangers & the 82nd Airborne. A hat does not make a person or a unit elite or look elite.

Wait wait, berets should be reserved for elite units because the beret isn't elite and doesn't make you elite. Does that make sense to anyone else, because it sure doesn't to me.

I guess I could take time and do things that aren't authorized to the PC, technically not authorized, definitely not functional, to make it look better. Like putting cardboard in it to force it to hold shape, the unauthorized thing being that it is supposed to be stowed in the cargo pocket, and that can't be done with cardboard in it. But no, that is the look it always ends up with, like dirt.

Yes, and that was sort of my point. We could all make our PCs look great, but it would remove the functionality of them. I would rather have a functional yet slightly crumpled PC than a pretty but completely non-functional beret any day of the week. Being able to go into the field with a hat that gives me some protection, in my opinion, makes me look and actually makes me more professional than a beret could ever do. Just my opinion, YMMV

[manfredvonrichthofen]

And my point was a bit the other way, the beret can be shoved into a pocket and not look like it has been in a pocket, where as the PC most certainly will look like dirt.

[Sapper168]

Yes, and that was sort of my point. We could all make our PCs look great, but it would remove the functionality of them. I would rather have a functional yet slightly crumpled PC than a pretty but completely non-functional beret any day of the week. Being able to go into the field with a hat that gives me some protection, in my opinion, makes me look and actually makes me more professional than a beret could ever do. Just my opinion, YMMV

Beret vs BDU cap is a non issue for 'field' work. I assume you are talking ground team missions when you say field work, in which case the required uniform for GTMs includes the BDU cap as per the task O-0001 in the UDF and Ground Team task guide.

2. The gear list below is the minimum required equipment. Items required of trainees are marked with a "T."
You may carry additional equipment subject to team leader approval and your ability to secure and carry it --
remember, you may have to walk a long way carrying it all.
   a. 24 hour pack
      1) On your person:
           a) Complete BDU uniform with BDU cap. The BDU cap may be replaced by a hard hat or bright colored cap based on mission needs.(T)

[abdsp51]

Berets should be reserved for units such as US Army SF, Rangers & the 82nd Airborne. A hat does not make a person or a unit elite or look elite. If a person has not earned one the hard way (SF, Rangers, 82nd) they look like a poser.

By Ranger I mean US Army Rangers not Hawk Mountain.

I think CAP has a great wardrobe of professional uniforms.

So then by this comment all the AFSC's that wear berets are posers ie SF, PJs, CCT, TACP, TALCE, combat weather, SERE, and all the rest are posers. 

[MSG Mac]

Berets should be reserved for units such as US Army SF, Rangers & the 82nd Airborne. A hat does not make a person or a unit elite or look elite. If a person has not earned one the hard way (SF, Rangers, 82nd) they look like a poser.

By Ranger I mean US Army Rangers not Hawk Mountain.

I think CAP has a great wardrobe of professional uniforms.

So then by this comment all the AFSC's that wear berets are posers ie SF, PJs, CCT, TACP, TALCE, combat weather, SERE, and all the rest are posers. 

I think he meant to say by Regular Military Units which are authorized to wear them.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Berets should be reserved for units such as US Army SF, Rangers & the 82nd Airborne. A hat does not make a person or a unit elite or look elite. If a person has not earned one the hard way (SF, Rangers, 82nd) they look like a poser.

Why?  That's the point I was getting at.  Why the "elitist" mentality with a beret?

After all, up until WWII the Army wore campaign hats...now those are reserved for DI's/DS's/MTI's/CC's.  I don't think Navy Recruit Commanders wear them (?).

Especially considering that almost everywhere but here, the first hat a recruit is issued is a beret (and not just the French!).

I remember an interview years ago with a Portuguese Air Force General who lamented the brevity of their basic training: "in that time we can just teach them how to wear their berets correctly."

My POV with berets is not to wear them with a utility uniform...but with the CAP G/W, which has no designated hat.  I wouldn't even consider it with the AF uniform because there is likely a better chance for us to get hard rank and blue epaulettes back than to get a beret approved for any AF-type uniform.

I would continue to wear the PC with utility uniforms.

I think CAP has a great wardrobe of professional uniforms.

As long as you meet H/W/G standards, yes.  Otherwise, you're stuck.

And...I must say I have never watched NASCAR in my life, nor do I have any plans to do so.  I prefer reruns of Married...With Children.

[lordmonar]

My POV with berets is not to wear them with a utility uniform...but with the CAP G/W, which has no designated hat.  I wouldn't even consider it with the AF uniform because there is likely a better chance for us to get hard rank and blue epaulettes back than to get a beret approved for any AF-type uniform.

The beret is already approved for wear with ALL AF type uniforms.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The beret is already approved for wear with ALL AF type uniforms.

For the Air Force AFSC's that have them, and for graduates of Hawk Mountain, etc., under some circumstances, but not for the rank-and-file membership of CAP.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yes, and that was sort of my point. We could all make our PCs look great, but it would remove the functionality of them. I would rather have a functional yet slightly crumpled PC than a pretty but completely non-functional beret any day of the week. Being able to go into the field with a hat that gives me some protection, in my opinion, makes me look and actually makes me more professional than a beret could ever do. Just my opinion, YMMV

Beret vs BDU cap is a non issue for 'field' work. I assume you are talking ground team missions when you say field work, in which case the required uniform for GTMs includes the BDU cap as per the task O-0001 in the UDF and Ground Team task guide.

2. The gear list below is the minimum required equipment. Items required of trainees are marked with a "T."
You may carry additional equipment subject to team leader approval and your ability to secure and carry it --
remember, you may have to walk a long way carrying it all.
   a. 24 hour pack
      1) On your person:
           a) Complete BDU uniform with BDU cap. The BDU cap may be replaced by a hard hat or bright colored cap based on mission needs.(T)

What about those times when the squadron doesn't allow the wear of the BDU cap, only the baseball cap? Note that is has a (T) next to it, I bet that is provisional for those wings/ groups/ what have you that authorize blue berets for ground team qualified personnel.

[johnnyb47]

The (T) indicates that trainees being evaluated ONLY have to have those items.
Not that ONLY Trainees have to have those items.
Subtle but important difference.

[Eclipse]

What about those times when the squadron doesn't allow the wear of the BDU cap, only the baseball cap?

Two issues - the local hat, assuming it is properly approved as per the regs, is already accounted for within the total program, however you've identified
another place where two regs conflict.

There is also the issue that, at least for cadets, a unit cannot require the wear of anything that is not issued to the cadet, so the idea that a
unit prohibits a PC in favor of a ball cap is somewhat problematic unless those ball caps are provided for free to the cadets in question.

Note that is has a (T) next to it, I bet that is provisional for those wings/ groups/ what have you that authorize blue berets for ground team qualified personnel.

As noted, the (T) indicates equipment required to even begin training, not things which are provisional or optional.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Which is what I was saying... Sort of....

There is also a stipulation that the IC/HMIC can make changes to the uniforms. Here in Indiana, blue berets are authorized. And yes, I wholly believe they show a very strong professional appearance over the PC, that is all I am trying to say.

[Nathan]

Which is what I was saying... Sort of....

There is also a stipulation that the IC/HMIC can make changes to the uniforms. Here in Indiana, blue berets are authorized. And yes, I wholly believe they show a very strong professional appearance over the PC, that is all I am trying to say.

Not even NBB allows them to be worn when you're actually doing anything important (at least that was the policy back in 2004).

And when we're talking about a ground team mission, exactly how do the benefits of "looking professional to some people" outweigh the benefits that a more rugged, easily maintained, and brimmed patrol cap provide? Having worn both, I simply don't think that how you look to the few outsiders who see you tromping around in the woods is worth giving up the patrol cap, especially when the patrol cap doesn't actually look unprofessional anyway.

[Eclipse]

There is also a stipulation that the IC/HMIC can make changes to the uniforms.

Where?

[Eclipse]

Not even NBB allows them to be worn when you're actually doing anything important (at least that was the policy back in 2004).

And none of the US military services wear them in the field, either.

Which should be hint enough...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

N the field, nothing is allowed for head gear other than a Kevlar helmet, in the military.

How in the world is a pc more rugged than a beret when the pc that I am wearing has been taken care of looks like a wrinkle grenade was thrown at it, and the beret  gets tossed in a box and put into my pocket every time I wear it? The PC is not tougher or more rugged than a beret. Show me some proof