Salute?

[ElectricPenguin]

I have never needed to know the answer to this question, but now I do. If a Sergeant is a Cadet Commander, do you salute when passing? Would you call them Sir because of their position?

[Extremepredjudice]

Nope, they are still a NCO.

[NCRblues]

No

[ElectricPenguin]

Nope, they are still a NCO.

OK. Thanks!

[jimmydeanno]

Not picking on you EP, but questions like this would be non-existent if squadrons knocked off the "NCO Cadet Commander" stuff and had cadets in the appropriate position for their grade.

[tsrup]

Not picking on you EP, but questions like this would be non-existent if squadrons knocked off the "NCO Cadet Commander" stuff and had cadets in the appropriate position for their grade.

Sometimes you just don't have an officer. 

While officially your highest in the food chain is a Flight Sgt, functionally they are a "cadet commander"


It is what it is. 
And without getting into the terribleness that would come with making instant officers to fulfill a need, it wont be going away anytime soon.



But on topic, it has been said multiple times.  No, an NCO "Cadet Commander" does not warrant a salute.

[jimmydeanno]

Functionally, a Flight Sergeant is in no way a Cadet Commander.  Just because you're at the top of the cadet chain of command, doesn't make you a commander.  The roles and responsibilities are significantly different, the program goals at each level are significantly different, and how they operate in the environment are different.

In the case that a squadron only had a flight sergeant, the senior staff would be picking up the duties and assignments that those above the flight sergeant would normally do.

An NCO should be focusing on how to be a good NCO and mastering "small team leadership," not developing long-term strategic goals and plans for the cadet corps.

[Major Lord]

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you appoint a Cadet Commander; you can get a long just fine without one. Its more of a problem when you are top-heavy with Cadet Officers and trying to find something for all of them to do besides teaching D&C, and C&C's.

Major Lord

[Spaceman3750]

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you appoint a Cadet Commander; you can get a long just fine without one. Its more of a problem when you are top-heavy with Cadet Officers and trying to find something for all of them to do besides teaching D&C, and C&C's.

Major Lord

You drive them into the community and tell them to recruit! Kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses but with better uniforms .

[lordmonar]

Functionally, a Flight Sergeant is in no way a Cadet Commander.  Just because you're at the top of the cadet chain of command, doesn't make you a commander.  The roles and responsibilities are significantly different, the program goals at each level are significantly different, and how they operate in the environment are different.

In the case that a squadron only had a flight sergeant, the senior staff would be picking up the duties and assignments that those above the flight sergeant would normally do.

An NCO should be focusing on how to be a good NCO and mastering "small team leadership," not developing long-term strategic goals and plans for the cadet corps.

Yes...but when said NCO is not a Lt Col....and he still only has 10 cadets under him....he's a glorified Flight Sergeant.

This is one of the hazards of our program.

If your top cadet in only a MSgt or what ever....then the senior members must step in and take to the jobs.....and then we get dinged for not letting the cadets run the program.

You can't win for loseing.

[Angus]

Not picking on you EP, but questions like this would be non-existent if squadrons knocked off the "NCO Cadet Commander" stuff and had cadets in the appropriate position for their grade.

Sometimes you just don't have an officer. 

I've seen this happen many times.  But only when the Sagent is a C/CMS.  Anything less and they're a Flt Sgt. 

[Major Lord]

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you appoint a Cadet Commander; you can get a long just fine without one. Its more of a problem when you are top-heavy with Cadet Officers and trying to find something for all of them to do besides teaching D&C, and C&C's.

Major Lord

You drive them into the community and tell them to recruit! Kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses but with better uniforms .

Great idea! Door-to-door fund-raising/ recruitment. We just need our own version of the "CAP Watchtower" to hand out. On a related note, the JW's who canvass my neighborhood now always include a young lady in their door-knock team, which keeps people from being overly rude and/or violent.  If you ever need to hire a salesman, I would look for these guys first; They have no fear of rejection and accept the word "no" as a request for more information. I don't subscribe to their beliefs, but I admire their courage and strongly held beliefs (two attributes that are strongly interrelated) Something we could use a little more of in CAP.

Major Lord

[Spaceman3750]

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you appoint a Cadet Commander; you can get a long just fine without one. Its more of a problem when you are top-heavy with Cadet Officers and trying to find something for all of them to do besides teaching D&C, and C&C's.

Major Lord

You drive them into the community and tell them to recruit! Kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses but with better uniforms .

Great idea! Door-to-door fund-raising/ recruitment. We just need our own version of the "CAP Watchtower" to hand out. On a related note, the JW's who canvass my neighborhood now always include a young lady in their door-knock team, which keeps people from being overly rude and/or violent.  If you ever need to hire a salesman, I would look for these guys first; They have no fear of rejection and accept the word "no" as a request for more information. I don't subscribe to their beliefs, but I admire their courage and strongly held beliefs (two attributes that are strongly interrelated) Something we could use a little more of in CAP.

Major Lord

I think door-to-door fundraising is officially verboten. I was thinking like a table at the mall and high school sports games and such.

[a2capt]

[tsrup]

(picture of plane and Mt. Rushmore)

ugh this picture is everywhere..

[ol'fido]

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you appoint a Cadet Commander; you can get a long just fine without one. Its more of a problem when you are top-heavy with Cadet Officers and trying to find something for all of them to do besides teaching D&C, and C&C's.

Major Lord

You drive them into the community and tell them to recruit! Kind of like Jehovah's Witnesses but with better uniforms .

Great idea! Door-to-door fund-raising/ recruitment. We just need our own version of the "CAP Watchtower" to hand out. On a related note, the JW's who canvass my neighborhood now always include a young lady in their door-knock team, which keeps people from being overly rude and/or violent.  If you ever need to hire a salesman, I would look for these guys first; They have no fear of rejection and accept the word "no" as a request for more information. I don't subscribe to their beliefs, but I admire their courage and strongly held beliefs (two attributes that are strongly interrelated) Something we could use a little more of in CAP.

Major Lord

It's easy to get rid of the JWs. Just answer the door NAKED.

[jimmydeanno]

Yes...but when said NCO is not a Lt Col....and he still only has 10 cadets under him....he's a glorified Flight Sergeant.

Which is a failure of the local leadership.  Why any unit has 10 cadets or less, I have no idea.  It doesn't mean that we should cheapen the program because the local senior leadership sucks.  Also, a cadet officer in that unit can still do the duties of a cadet officer, without directly leading the rest of the cadets.  Strategic Leadership doesn't mean "in charge of 100 cadets," it means that they are looking forward towards long-term objectives and how to get there.  You can have someone that has 400 people under their command and they still aren't a "strategic leader."

If your top cadet in only a MSgt or what ever....then the senior members must step in and take to the jobs.....and then we get dinged for not letting the cadets run the program.

By people who don't understand how the program is supposed to operate.  There isn't an SUI item that says that the cadets run the program.  What is important is that they participate in the program at the level that they're at.  If you have a cadet who is flight sergeant, you don't want to report that a senior has taken the flight sergeant role and the cadet who should be filling that position is just standing in ranks.


General Comment:  It seems odd to me that many of the people who are criticizing a Cadet for calling another cadet "First Sergeant" are the same who are willing to put a C/SSgt as "Cadet Commander" in the very next thread.  CAP calls out "Typical Roles" in the Cadet Staff Handbook for a reason - because those positions focus on the material that the cadet should be learning to fulfill their "goals for promotion."  To me, that is far more important than using the term First Sergeant.

[tsrup]

Yes...but when said NCO is not a Lt Col....and he still only has 10 cadets under him....he's a glorified Flight Sergeant.

Which is a failure of the local leadership.  Why any unit has 10 cadets or less, I have no idea.  It doesn't mean that we should cheapen the program because the local senior leadership sucks.  Also, a cadet officer in that unit can still do the duties of a cadet officer, without directly leading the rest of the cadets.  Strategic Leadership doesn't mean "in charge of 100 cadets," it means that they are looking forward towards long-term objectives and how to get there.  You can have someone that has 400 people under their command and they still aren't a "strategic leader."

This is a generalization.  Just because a unit only has 10 cadets doesn't mean that it is a floundering unit.  If the bodies aren't in your area, you can't recruit them.  You may want to blame the leadership for this, but face it, what is successful for some isn't the same as others.  I run a program here with 18 cadets on the roster, 15 that show up regularly, but that wasn't always the case.  It took a lot of hard work to get to this point and there were times where we were below that 10 members actively attending. 

We all can't have super units, especially those of us that are in more rural areas.  But I challenge anyone of those units to say that their quality of cadet or senior leadership is better than ours.

If your top cadet in only a MSgt or what ever....then the senior members must step in and take to the jobs.....and then we get dinged for not letting the cadets run the program.

By people who don't understand how the program is supposed to operate.  There isn't an SUI item that says that the cadets run the program.  What is important is that they participate in the program at the level that they're at.  If you have a cadet who is flight sergeant, you don't want to report that a senior has taken the flight sergeant role and the cadet who should be filling that position is just standing in ranks.

I do agree with this statement.  Responsibility should be given to the cadets at a level that they are comfortable with.

General Comment:  It seems odd to me that many of the people who are criticizing a Cadet for calling another cadet "First Sergeant" are the same who are willing to put a C/SSgt as "Cadet Commander" in the very next thread.  CAP calls out "Typical Roles" in the Cadet Staff Handbook for a reason - because those positions focus on the material that the cadet should be learning to fulfill their "goals for promotion."  To me, that is far more important than using the term First Sergeant.

Not the same argument.

It is different between a cadet first sergeant demanding to be called something that isn't supported by regulation.  And a cadet being confused what to call what he/she perceives as their cadet commander or if that person warrants a salute (which we've all unanimously said "no").  I think the stance is pretty consistent.

Face it, in the eyes of the in ranks cadets the highest cadet in their chain of command is functionally their "Cadet Commander" regardless of how we want to correct otherwise.

But I agree, the problem does arise when said top cadet doesn't understand the difference.

[titanII]

It's easy to get rid of the JWs. Just answer the door NAKED.

Personally, I like to drive them off by having a nice chat with them... really weird 'em out 

[SarDragon]

It's easy to get rid of the JWs. Just answer the door NAKED.

Offering to chat over a beer is an instant winner.