Mistake in Mission Base Staff Task Guides...?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Guys, please help me out.

On Mission Base Staff Guides, task P2003, it states that "equipment and vehicles are to be signed in using CAPF 121." So I went online to download CAPF121, but there was nothing like it there. I will not see my ES person until late this week so I cannot ask her about this.

Was this an error? If National requires many ICS forms, in fact this guide mentions ICS form 211 to register personnel, why not use ICS form 218 for vehicles and aircraft?

Any one already qualified in this task can you advise me...?

Flyer333555

[Eclipse]

Word: http://kywgcap.org/Portals/0/Forms/downloads/National%20Forms/CAPF%20121%20Aircraft-Vehicle%20Register.dot

PDF: http://kywgcap.org/Portals/0/Forms/downloads/National%20Forms/CAPF%20121%20Aircraft-Vehicle%20Register.pdf

[Luis R. Ramos]

Thank you for the fast reply.

Flyer333555

[JC004]

This is rescinded? 

[SarDragon]

This is rescinded?

Appears so. I'm at the wrong computer to provide more detail.

[sardak]

You (the OP) are being sucked in by another regulations/manuals black hole.

CAPR 60-4 Volume 1 Part 1 was CAP Emergency Services Mission Forms. From the introduction: This regulation provides instructions and samples of Incident Command System (ICS) forms and CAP forms required for use on CAP emergency services missions.  Practices, procedures, and standards prescribed in this regulation are mandatory and may not be supplemented or changed locally without the prior approval of NHQ CAP/DO.

60-4 VIPI didn't contain the CAPF 121, thereby making it obsolete, and why the form isn't listed on the National forms website. VIPI did contain the ICS 211 and 218.

However, the instructions for both these forms state: Usage Requirements. This form will be used if required by the lead or supported agency. For missions utilizing only CAP assets and resources, in-house electronic tools and media are encouraged to support appropriate electronic check-in of resources or vehicle tracking. So, one could still use the CAPF 121 on a CAP only activity, except the form was deleted.

CAPR 60-4 Volume I Part I, Volume I Part II and Volume II were rescinded by letter on 30 May 2006 because "necessary changes" were made to other "documents, programs and online services." Gotcha! No, the proper changes weren't made.

To add to the confusion, P-2003 discusses the 211, 121 and the CAPF 103 for checking in resources. And P-2006 has a gross error in that it says to use an ICS-214 (Unit Log) to register aircraft and vehicles. The Mission Staff Reference Text makes no mention of the 103, 121 or 218.

Bottom line, one could argue that the CAPF 103 and CAPF 121 can still be used.

Mike

[Luis R. Ramos]

I was also thinking there was a mention of ICS Form 214 instead of 218 when I started this post, I just could not figure where.

Thanks for the update.

Flyer333555

[Al Sayre]

If you remember from your ICS 300 Course, the forms are flexible, you can tailor them to suit your purpose, as long as the numbers remain the same so people know what the function of the form is.  There would be nothing wrong with taking the Old CAPF-121 and slapping an ICS 211-A/V designator on it and using it to check in aircraft and vehicles, if that's what works for you.

Now that we are using ICS, this might be helpful to you:  http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/ICSResource/assets/ICSFormsUse.pdf

Here is a link to the FEMA versions of the forms:  http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/ICSResource/ICSResCntr_Forms.htm

Remember it is the FUNCTION of the form that determines the form number, not the layout.  Add blocks if you need them, or remove them if you don't.  Modify the form work for you, don't try to force fit your info into someone elses form.

[Larry Mangum]

While Al is correct and I agree with his position, NHQ and the Air Force have stated that we are not to modify the FEMA forms. The CAPF 121 has been replaced by the ICS211 to sign in personnel and vehicles.

[JC004]

If you remember from your ICS 300 Course, the forms are flexible, you can tailor them to suit your purpose, as long as the numbers remain the same so people know what the function of the form is.  There would be nothing wrong with taking the Old CAPF-121 and slapping an ICS 211-A/V designator on it and using it to check in aircraft and vehicles, if that's what works for you.
...

Hmm.  For non-mission things, we used to use a F 103 that I made after it was rescinded.  I know of at least 2 units that framed 103s in memoriam.  Some wings made their own 103s after its demise.  What a great form.  Those were the days.

[Eclipse]

While Al is correct and I agree with his position, NHQ and the Air Force have stated that we are not to modify the FEMA forms. The CAPF 121 has been replaced by the ICS211 to sign in personnel and vehicles.

Which in many cases results in paragraphs crammed into spaces meant for one word and a half page of empty columns.

[Larry Mangum]

Again, I am not disagreeing with you, NHQ's and the USAF's position does make sense from an organizational position. Consider this, while FEMA allows organizations to modify a form for it's use as long as it does not change the forms function, at what level does an organization make the change?  If NHQ made the change then the change would apply across the organization, and that would comply with FEMA's guidelines.  But what happens when each Wing, squadron, or IC is allowed to modify forms at will?  Would that comply with the FEMA guidelines? What happened to standardization across the organization?

[ol'fido]

While Al is correct and I agree with his position, NHQ and the Air Force have stated that we are not to modify the FEMA forms. The CAPF 121 has been replaced by the ICS211 to sign in personnel and vehicles.

This has been debated for a while. I have had people tell me we must use the forms exactly as they are published on the FEMA website and my 300/400 instructors telling me to modify as necessary. I use the FEMA Resources Center to get my ICS forms that I use for encampment. They can be downloaded as a PDF or Word document. The Word documents can be changed. This is not just the data you enter but the structure of the form as well. So my thought is that the ICS is flexible enough to be modified for CAP use.

The problem is that instead of just changing the form enough to make it usable for CAP, many people are just making up a form that performs basically the same function but bears no resemblance to the original ICS form. The trick is to change or customize the forms only to the extent needed. For instance, marking out dozer on a 209 and typing in C-172.

The only change I would make to the 211 is to shrink column #5 Order/Request as small as possible so that people have enough room to sign their name and CAPID# in #4.

Remember the ICS and its forms are designed primarily for a large fire-fighting/HAZMAT situation and may not be applicable "as is" to a SAR mission. But the idea is that anybody could look at one of our mission forms and have a pretty good idea of what is going on if they are familiar with the ICS system. Even the USAF should understand that.

[sardak]

FEMA released new "official" versions of the ICS forms in book form earlier this year. They are available only in PDF (unless you know who to ask) here: http://www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/JobAids.shtm

Included with them are explicit instructions on when and how to modify them. Similar instructions existed for the "old" versions that Al linked to, if one looked hard enough.

The NWCG, from where FEMA got the ICS forms to start with, used to have the forms in PDF and Word on its website. Now it only has PDF versions.  http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/forms/icsforms.htm

The Coast Guard, has its versions of the ICS forms, but as a result of FEMA's action, this is now posted on the USCG website:
FEMA has published new ICS forms in the FEMA ICS Forms Booklet, FEMA 502-2 (attached as "ics_forms_2010".  These are only available via an Adobe PDF booklet.  The U.S. Coast Guard will adopt these for Coast Guard (USCG) use since they are the national standard.  Until they are fully implemented, the USCG will continue to utilize the USCG All-Risk/All-Hazard Incident Command System (ICS) Forms. 

The USCG ICS Forms are one of several tools that are available to support personnel managing a response to an incident and in completing an Incident Action Plan (IAP).  There will be several forms that the USCG has developed that NIMS has not recognized and these will continue to be maintained and used by the USCG.

To find the USCG ICS forms (and a lot of other useful ICS material) start at  http://homeport.uscg.mil/  drill down to the Library and then to ICS (not Forms).

Mike

[RiverAux]

I've got to say that the whole ICS forms issue is really the only thing about the ICS system (as implemented by CAP) that really just hacks me off.  The old CAP forms worked extremely well for what we needed and there was absolutely no need to get rid of them for forms that just don't work well for CAP. 

Since even during major disasters when CAP is just a small part of the response, all the forms generated by CAP stay within CAP there is just no need for us to worry about using the same forms as everyone else. 

And in those rare situations where CAP members may go work at someone else's base, I'm sure that they could figure out how to sign in correctly on whatever forms are going to be used there (which may or may not be the FEMA forms anyway). 

[ol'fido]

FEMA released new "official" versions of the ICS forms in book form earlier this year. They are available only in PDF (unless you know who to ask) here: http://www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/JobAids.shtm

Included with them are explicit instructions on when and how to modify them. Similar instructions existed for the "old" versions that Al linked to, if one looked hard enough.

The NWCG, from where FEMA got the ICS forms to start with, used to have the forms in PDF and Word on its website. Now it only has PDF versions.  http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/forms/icsforms.htm

The Coast Guard, has its versions of the ICS forms, but as a result of FEMA's action, this is now posted on the USCG website:
FEMA has published new ICS forms in the FEMA ICS Forms Booklet, FEMA 502-2 (attached as "ics_forms_2010".  These are only available via an Adobe PDF booklet.  The U.S. Coast Guard will adopt these for Coast Guard (USCG) use since they are the national standard.  Until they are fully implemented, the USCG will continue to utilize the USCG All-Risk/All-Hazard Incident Command System (ICS) Forms. 

The USCG ICS Forms are one of several tools that are available to support personnel managing a response to an incident and in completing an Incident Action Plan (IAP).  There will be several forms that the USCG has developed that NIMS has not recognized and these will continue to be maintained and used by the USCG.

To find the USCG ICS forms (and a lot of other useful ICS material) start at  http://homeport.uscg.mil/  drill down to the Library and then to ICS (not Forms).

Mike

I was on the FEMA Resources Center website this morning. The forms are still there in PDF and Word.

http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/ICSResource/ICSResCntr_Forms.htm

As Eclipse likes to say, Google is your friend.

[sardak]

As Eclipse likes to say, Google is your friend.

Thanks for the tip, but I've heard of it. Al had already provided the same forms page reference earlier in thread and I made mention of it in my post.

If you check the Word or PDF forms on your reference page, they don't match the "new" 2010 FEMA forms that I referenced. On this page with the Word forms, clicking on "Resource Center Home" takes you back there, where there is the link to ICS forms. Clicking on it takes you to the 2010 PDF forms, not the "old" Word ones.

Anyway, there's no way like the old way, just making sure everyone understands that FEMA has created new ICS forms which are the ones linked to at the ICS Resource Center page.

Mike

[Al Sayre]

If you use the new link Sardak provided (http://www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/JobAids.shtm) above, you'll also see a .TXT file is available in addition to the .PDF's  All of the forms are provided in basic text format, so you can modify them as needed.  As noted, there are instructions on how to append the names if you change the form for a specific purpose.  Just be sure to retain the essential elements. 

[Ed Bos]

While Al is correct and I agree with his position, NHQ and the Air Force have stated that we are not to modify the FEMA forms. The CAPF 121 has been replaced by the ICS211 to sign in personnel and vehicles.

Where is that directive posted?

[Ed Bos]

Again, I am not disagreeing with you, NHQ's and the USAF's position does make sense from an organizational position. Consider this, while FEMA allows organizations to modify a form for it's use as long as it does not change the forms function, at what level does an organization make the change?  If NHQ made the change then the change would apply across the organization, and that would comply with FEMA's guidelines.  But what happens when each Wing, squadron, or IC is allowed to modify forms at will?  Would that comply with the FEMA guidelines? What happened to standardization across the organization?

I was under the impression that the standardization was in the "vocabulary" not the administrivia. By putting "ICS 211" at the bottom of the page, it's universally understood that the document is a Check-In list.

At the end of the day, everyone could modify a form to tailor it to their specific needs, as long as the "name" matched the function of the document.