CERT Training

[Senior]

I completed initial CERT Training this weekend.  I learned a lot about medical operations.  Learning triage and how to perform a  head-to-toe assessment were a few of the interesting things we did.  I was impressed how the others in my team picked up the material and put it in to practice by the third day.  Most of the folks had never been in the military, CAP, etc., but we all came together as a team very quickly.  I was in a very motivated group.  I look forward to the ongoing training that is offered to the CERT members in my area. 

[arBar]

Loved my CERT course also.  I encourage everyone to take it.

[RADIOMAN015]

I think for the most part a CAP CERT flight, ground type team is the way many wings should be looking seriously at as one of the primary ground team roles.   ELT and rescuing people from aircraft really isn't that high of a tempo (fortunately).  CERT's can be used in the community for a variety of roles, anything from directing traffic, feed people, searching, etc, etc.

It's very unfortunate at the National Level that the emphasis is on very costly NESA type training or even local training events when this is virtually free in the local community, or even at the county level.

RM

[Eclipse]

Again with cost.

Its costs exactly zero to become a Ground Team Member, and as a GTM you are much better equipped to be independent
and self-sufficient in any disaster situation than a CERT member, who's primary role is self-care, and local neighborhood care.

A GTM can do everything they can do and then some, as long as the relationships exist before Armageddon.

And the training costs nothing.

[RADIOMAN015]

Again with cost.

Its costs exactly zero to become a Ground Team Member, and as a GTM you are much better equipped to be independent
and self-sufficient in any disaster situation than a CERT member, who's primary role is self-care, and local neighborhood care.

A GTM can do everything they can do and then some, as long as the relationships exist before Armageddon.

And the training costs nothing.

In order to get certified for CAP ground team you need a fair amount of equipment.  Likely this will cost you about $200.00 (if you add in real winter gear that we need in the north).    CERT basically is a much simpler activity with actually a higher ops tempo than CAP ground forces.   One can train, train, train, train, and NEVER get a call in CAP.  CERT on the other hand is active in many communities for a variety of activities that CAP could easily be a "flight" with them after the appropriate simple training.

BTW last time I looked isn't CAP suppose to be about "citizens' serving communities, above & beyond?"
RM   

[HGjunkie]

GT Gear should not be costing $200.

[Eclipse]

Again with cost.

Its costs exactly zero to become a Ground Team Member, and as a GTM you are much better equipped to be independent
and self-sufficient in any disaster situation than a CERT member, who's primary role is self-care, and local neighborhood care.

A GTM can do everything they can do and then some, as long as the relationships exist before Armageddon.

And the training costs nothing.

In order to get certified for CAP ground team you need a fair amount of equipment.  Likely this will cost you about $200.00 (if you add in real winter gear that we need in the north).   

No, you do not.  You do not need to buy a single thing in order to get qualified as a GTM.  There are units all over the country that have shared gear for their teams, or you can borrow it to get your cert.

If you do need it, you can get it all for about $50.

[commando1]

Again with cost.

Its costs exactly zero to become a Ground Team Member, and as a GTM you are much better equipped to be independent
and self-sufficient in any disaster situation than a CERT member, who's primary role is self-care, and local neighborhood care.

A GTM can do everything they can do and then some, as long as the relationships exist before Armageddon.

And the training costs nothing.

In order to get certified for CAP ground team you need a fair amount of equipment.  Likely this will cost you about $200.00 (if you add in real winter gear that we need in the north).   

No, you do not.  You do not need to buy a single thing in order to get qualified as a GTM.  There are units all over the country that have shared gear for their teams, or you can borrow it to get your cert.

If you do need it, you can get it all for about $50.

I love when people talk about GT gear costing next to nothing. A bookbag and some junk from a dollar store might meet the requirments but will it really stand up when its used to find a missing aircraft?  Mind you, I'm not advocating buying a $100 compass but a solid ground team needs solid equipment. I have spent roughly $200 on GT gear over 3 years but I also have lightweight, high speed type gear. YMMV

[Spaceman3750]

Again with cost.

Its costs exactly zero to become a Ground Team Member, and as a GTM you are much better equipped to be independent
and self-sufficient in any disaster situation than a CERT member, who's primary role is self-care, and local neighborhood care.

A GTM can do everything they can do and then some, as long as the relationships exist before Armageddon.

And the training costs nothing.

In order to get certified for CAP ground team you need a fair amount of equipment.  Likely this will cost you about $200.00 (if you add in real winter gear that we need in the north).   

borrow it to get your cert.

And then what happens when Cadet Snuffy shows up for a mission with no 24 hour gear but fully qualified? Obviously, he doesn't go out, but that's not going to help retain an otherwise motivated cadet.

[EMT-83]

I guess it depends on what "gear" includes. If you count items like good boots and warm clothing, you're easily at $200. Yeah, I know, you should have it anyway.

[Eclipse]

I love when people talk about GT gear costing next to nothing. A bookbag and some junk from a dollar store might meet the requirments but will it really stand up when its used to find a missing aircraft?  Mind you, I'm not advocating buying a $100 compass but a solid ground team needs solid equipment. I have spent roughly $200 on GT gear over 3 years but I also have lightweight, high speed type gear.

As do I.  That is not what we are discussing.
We are talking about qualification, not the gear used by an experienced member with multiple real-worlds under his belt.

Suggesting to anyone, especially a cadet, that GT gear will be $200, will potentially discourage that cadet or insinuate a
gateway where non exists.

Further, there are 3 cadets who get their badge and never really see the field for every one who goes to NESA and starts
piling up ELT's and saves.  Better a new member goes with the dollar store stuff initially and then replaces things along the
way, then racks up a $1000 REI and Blackhawk bill just to see it on eBay 6 months later for 1/3 the cost.

[Eclipse]

I guess it depends on what "gear" includes. If you count items like good boots and warm clothing, you're easily at $200. Yeah, I know, you should have it anyway.

If you count the cell phone, radio, POV, and the home it is stored in, it might $250K.  Doesn't really change things, does it?

Space - a cadet who doesn't own his gear can't do that mission, that day.  Or perhaps he is part of a rotation group that shares
their gear during a long mission.  At least he's got the skills and know-how to use it and be some value to CAP and himself.
In Armageddon, he can run through Walmart or his neighbor's shed on the way the ICP.

Trained cadets with no gear are easy to fix.  Untrained cadets are not.

[RADIOMAN015]

I guess it depends on what "gear" includes. If you count items like good boots and warm clothing, you're easily at $200. Yeah, I know, you should have it anyway.

If you count the cell phone, radio, POV, and the home it is stored in, it might $250K.  Doesn't really change things, does it?

Space - a cadet who doesn't own his gear can't do that mission, that day.  Or perhaps he is part of a rotation group that shares
their gear during a long mission.  At least he's got the skills and know-how to use it and be some value to CAP and himself.
In Armageddon, he can run through Walmart or his neighbor's shed on the way the ICP.

Trained cadets with no gear are easy to fix.  Untrained cadets are not.

So again what we really get down to his personal equipment versus organizational equipment.  IF the individuals don't have the personal equipment (as required), why certify them for anything, you won't be able to use them

As far as CERT goes, there's going to be much less equipment, and depending upon the government agency some of the equipment (including personal) may even be provided.

I'm all for training people in ES, but lets be realistic on WHO really is READY to RESPOND and again not have a bunch of statistics that in reality due to personal equipment shortfalls are not true.
RM

[Eclipse]

So again what we really get down to his personal equipment versus organizational equipment.  IF the individuals don't have the personal equipment (as required), why certify them for anything, you won't be able to use them

Why, exactly?

Is a bill of sale and a title required to use a compass?

Repeating now.  A lot of units purchased the gear and keep it in a central place, then they train everyone
and when there is a real mission, those that can come that day meet up and deploy.

I'd say that having everyone in the unit trained and qualified has value in and of itself, but there is no gateway regarding
equipment if you are flexible.

As we all know, for better or worse, those GT badges are an anchor to staying in the program for a lot of members.
Who cares who's vest the member is wearing if he can learn to be self-sufficient and maybe save a life?

Ring the bell and give me 12 members and 6 sets of gear, and I'll show you an effective force.  Certainly more effective
than 12 members who were told by the comm guy that GTM is too expensive to bother with.

[davidsinn]

As far as CERT goes, there's going to be much less equipment, and depending upon the government agency some of the equipment (including personal) may even be provided.

I'd like to point out that my CERT gear which is issued has a price tag of $160+. I only got it issued because I am an instructor and an EMA volunteer. All new CERT teams are needing to be self sufficient to equip themselves because the grants just aren't there anymore. Thus the cost to be a fully equipped CERT member is comparable to being a fully equipped GTM.

[RADIOMAN015]

As far as CERT goes, there's going to be much less equipment, and depending upon the government agency some of the equipment (including personal) may even be provided.

I'd like to point out that my CERT gear which is issued has a price tag of $160+. I only got it issued because I am an instructor and an EMA volunteer. All new CERT teams are needing to be self sufficient to equip themselves because the grants just aren't there anymore. Thus the cost to be a fully equipped CERT member is comparable to being a fully equipped GTM.

As I said above "may" provide.   CERT gives most CAP units wanting a ground type mission a better chance to be participating in the local area community  than typical CAP ground team find the elt & find the aircraft exercises, which depending upon the wing has the units driving many miles/hours away from their home operating area to participate in an exercise.  From a public affairs standpoint, we do better to improve our community awareness by participating in CERT type activities with them as opposed to the so called super secret elt/aircraft crash type exercises, where no one can talk to the press except the IC or mission PAO --- of course news coverage always varies and NO on in CAP has complete control of what eventually gets reported and how it is reported.
RM 

[Eclipse]

CERT, in and of itself, provides a CAP unit or member with nothing in regards to additional tasking, or potential
DR missions.

Without CAP qualifications, a member can be a CERT Ph.d and they won't be able to even show up to a CAP mission.

What garners CAP missions is first, capability, (i.e. training), and only then, contacts with local EMA's and similar agencies
so that they know our phone number and that of the NOC when they need assistance.

As to the comments about ELT's, I know I have no idea what you are talking about, and I am not sure you do either. 
Our ELT missions are not confidential in most cases, nor do we seek to make a secret of them.  We do, however,
work to maintain professional public image, and prtect our customers in the form of trained PAO's, and only releasing information the public actually needs, when they need it.

This is what all professionalized agencies do, volunteer or otherwise.

[wuzafuzz]

GTM training does not currently cover the same topics as CERT.  The reverse is true as well.  While they are not the same the gaps are relatively small and could be easily added to the GTM SQTR's.  Voila!  GTM's are also CERT; assuming CERT qualified instructors are involved.

Since GTM covers a lot of things CERT doesn't there is plenty of room for separate CERT training.  Sort of like the difference between UDF and GTM.  Folks who aren't interested in hiking the mountains can still be useful in CERT roles without earning GTM ratings.  (I know, some of you don't have mountains to worry about.  Some of us do.)

Eclipse is absolutely right that relationships need to exist BEFORE disasters happen.  Training up is great but don't expect anyone to call your "team" unless they know who you are and what you do. 

CERT training isn't a panacea for disaster relief nor does it make someone a public safety professional.  However, even training for individual knowledge is great...more disaster survival than relief.  Anything that reminds or teaches people they should be more self-reliant than the average yo-yo is a good thing IMHO. 

[RADIOMAN015]

GTM training does not currently cover the same topics as CERT.  The reverse is true as well.  While they are not the same the gaps are relatively small and could be easily added to the GTM SQTR's.  Voila!  GTM's are also CERT; assuming CERT qualified instructors are involved.

Since GTM covers a lot of things CERT doesn't there is plenty of room for separate CERT training.  Sort of like the difference between UDF and GTM.  Folks who aren't interested in hiking the mountains can still be useful in CERT roles without earning GTM ratings.  (I know, some of you don't have mountains to worry about.  Some of us do.)

Eclipse is absolutely right that relationships need to exist BEFORE disasters happen.  Training up is great but don't expect anyone to call your "team" unless they know who you are and what you do. 

CERT training isn't a panacea for disaster relief nor does it make someone a public safety professional.  However, even training for individual knowledge is great...more disaster survival than relief.  Anything that reminds or teaches people they should be more self-reliant than the average yo-yo is a good thing IMHO.

My whole point is that CERT training (with the appropriate local or county/service area government) could be another avenue somewhere between UDF & GT or even before ANY CAP specific training yet allow CAP to be part of a community service support package.  That is what we need to work on.  Surely, if individuals want to camp out and run around in the woods that is fine also BUT much of the community support really won't require that full GT training.   Heck in our wing they ran a centralized block training program in the woods for 6 weekends, I applaud :clap: the seniors & cadets that did this (lots of time, effort, and a fair amount of cost), BUT those type of GT & UDF missions they were trained for are just about non existent in our wing at this time.  Great training.
RM   

[mclarke]

I honestly think CERT is a good idea. I think CERT should actually be required within one year of joining and better organized with training schedules.

As for GT gear, I think I am spending close to $4000 this July for all my uniforms and gear..... but thats including 2 sets of blue BDUs, 2 woodlands, LBE, gps, cold weather, etc...

Realistically, not everyone can afford $4000, but my research is that for around $150 (excluding uniforms) you should be able to get what you need for GTM3 and have it last a little bit.

just my thoughts