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Author Topic: What's with all the hate on....  (Read 19472 times)
Eclipse
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2011, 04:58:30 PM »

At one point I counted, and I could put 14 different IT certifications behind my name.  It's like the ribbons in CAP, for outsiders they're just pretty colours on your shirt...to those who know, it's your resume.

To those who really know...heh, well...better left unsaid...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 05:06:12 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


lordmonar
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« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2011, 06:19:07 PM »

Within the Information Technologies communites.....there are a lot of certs out there A++. MCTS, et al......the IT guys are always going on and on about.....even to the point where one of our gay added it to his E-mail signature.  I have no ideal what they mean.....so when John Doe, MCTS sends me an e-mail I just have to put him in a box marked "?"

There is a reason for doing this, and it usually involves communications between IT people and technical areas of the companies they deal with. For example, if I am e-mailing a request to the Federal Reserve to make a change on our VPN connection, it helps if they know that I understand what multicasting is and if we are using it.

If you don't know what the letters mean, disregard them. :)
At one point I counted, and I could put 14 different IT certifications behind my name.  It's like the ribbons in CAP, for outsiders they're just pretty colours on your shirt...to those who know, it's your resume.
Well that is my point......to those who know....Spaatz is the beez Kneez.....but to job blow scholorship application clerk......it is "so what".
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2011, 09:57:08 PM »

Well that is my point......to those who know....Spaatz is the beez Kneez.....but to job blow scholorship application clerk......it is "so what".

I think that's all about marketing...Maybe someone can enlighten someone who has never been a boy scout the highlighted difference between a Spaatz cadet and a Eagle Scout...and before people start complaining that they are fundamentally different and can't be compared, I'm just curious about why a "Joe Blow Scholarship Application Clerk" should care about one or the other...and which one is more difficult to achieve?  Just generalities will suffice...thanks
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davidsinn
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« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2011, 10:34:14 PM »

Well that is my point......to those who know....Spaatz is the beez Kneez.....but to job blow scholorship application clerk......it is "so what".

I think that's all about marketing...Maybe someone can enlighten someone who has never been a boy scout the highlighted difference between a Spaatz cadet and a Eagle Scout...and before people start complaining that they are fundamentally different and can't be compared, I'm just curious about why a "Joe Blow Scholarship Application Clerk" should care about one or the other...and which one is more difficult to achieve?  Just generalities will suffice...thanks

They really can't be compared  ;D I'll try but first I will address why the admissions clerk cares about Eagle more than Spaatz. Quite simply it's marketing. The country has been told for decades that an Eagle is a breed apart and we count among our numbers astronauts(James Lovell) and presidents(Gerald Ford).  Do we have any triple diamonds of that caliber to hold up as an example of what it means? The other part of the problem is there have been less than 1800 Spaatz awards since 1964. By contrast there have been 1.7 million Eagles since it's inception in 1912, 52 thousand of those in 2008 alone. Wikipedia gives a pretty good break down of what the Eagle means.

IMHO, all other things being equal, an Eagle is a more rounded person than a Spaatz cadet. The Eagle requires you to learn a large range of skills including volunteer leadership. But wait, don't we teach cadets leadership? Yes we do but it's different in that our cadet leaders order their subordinates. In the BSA you can't do that. You must talk nice. A Spaatz is a singularly driven person but is largely book work type stuff as well as the CPFT.

When was the last time you heard of a Spaatz that had to go before a city council to gain approval to manage a workforce of volunteers to perform a large service project? And then go to businesses and get them to pony up money and materiel?
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David Sinn
Eclipse
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« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2011, 10:42:52 PM »

The country has been told for decades that an Eagle is a breed apart and we count among our numbers astronauts(James Lovell) and presidents(Gerald Ford).  Do we have any triple diamonds of that caliber to hold up as an example of what it means?

Um...yes?  Eric Boe.  And I guarantee you that among high school kids and most adults, neither name means much (and those that
know Lovell believe he looks like Tom Hanks).

I'll leave the rest on the table because it is pretty one-sided. 

The BSA and CAP only look alike from the outside to people who don't know much about either, and trying to compare them is unfair to both.
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arBar
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« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2011, 04:16:39 AM »

Keep in mind the military background and influence of Baden Powell on scouting.  I have heard it said that CAP is the face of the Air Force in many places around the country.  If that's the case (and I'm not sure if I buy that or not), then the BSA is most certainly the face of the military in general for many Americans.

What I mean by that is that for many young Americans, the BSA is the closest thing to the military that they see, as if its a military youth organization.  (1. Uniforms, 2. Ranks, 3. Saluting, etc.) Even though it has military influence, it is still far from it. 

So to answer the question of the OP, I think some CAP folks look down on/hate the BSA because they see it as a perceived competition, and since CAP is the "real" thing, the BSA are "less than".

To be fair, there is no comparison, as has been previously noted.  Different programs with different emphases.

But comparing CAP cadets to the common scout troop members, CAP blows the scouts out of the water when it comes to flag handling and things like that.  This has been my observation as being both an adult scouter and a CAP Senior member.

I love scouting and think its a great program.  My 8 months in CAP so far leave me very impressed with the cadet program also. 

I was in scouting from elementary school til college and never heard of the CAP.  If I had known about it, I certainly would have joined.  But for many young Americans I think they've just never heard of us. 

Maybe if we developed better marketing and had more years of doing so, we'll be better known as well.


 
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Senior
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« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2011, 09:22:18 PM »

What is the "bigotry" in Scouting mentioned by some posters?  Are the posters talking about problems in the individual Scout units?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2011, 09:27:45 PM »

What is the "bigotry" in Scouting mentioned by some posters?  Are the posters talking about problems in the individual Scout units?

No CAP vs. BSA, etc.
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Dad2-4
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« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2011, 11:33:14 PM »

Being a 30+ year veteran of Scouting, I've seen many things, good and bad, in BSA. One way Spaatz and Eagle are different in some cases is maturity. I've never seen a 13 year old Spaatz cadet. I have, on more than one occassion, seen kids who have no life outside of Scouting, be run through a merit badge mill by his parents, troop, or whomever, complete very weak projects mostly organized and run by adults, and signed off on Eagle Scout at age 13. The he goes off to college listing Eagle on his application with no mention that after Eagle he lost interest in Scouting and hasn't participated in the program since age 14.
So Eagle doesn't mean an outstanding young man in every case.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2011, 12:09:23 AM »

I've never seen a 13 year old Spaatz cadet.

Who wants to be first?    :P
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2011, 03:35:04 AM »

I've never seen a 13 year old Spaatz cadet.

Who wants to be first?    :P

Legend has it that there was one back when you could join younger. Just an old cadet legend though, who knows if it's true.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2011, 05:19:56 AM »

Spaatz #1558 was the youngest cadet to attain the honor (in early 2005).  She completed the third diamond just before
her 14th birthday.  She joined at 10-1/2 through the now closed loophole that some home-schooled cadets
used to join.  The days of "or 6th grade" are gone.

She came from a fairly high-speed family, with her dad an Army officer and her brother making #1548 before her.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 05:24:07 AM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2011, 06:08:10 PM »

Locally BSA has had a lot of consolidations, as you know they have a lot more paid employees than Civil Air Patrol.  They have also been affected by the economy.    BSA is closing a few of their camps in the western part of the state and consolidating to the center of the state.  They were going to try to sell the land those western camps were on BUT found out that the donation deed of the land specifically stated the land would have to be used for BSA activities forever.

Parents in the scouting program were very upset with some of the actions taken by the BSA, without even a warning to all of the troops in the western state area.  So I would suspect there still is some heartburn on this.

I think the BSA programs get media coverage more easily BUT I've found that the local papers will cover CAP events also.  TV wise, 2 out of 3 stations will cover CAP events.

Last year at the Eastern States Exposition (The Big E) they had an information booth and were trying to recruit kids as well as adults.  When I was asked I told them I had absolutely NO interest in their programs since I was committed to other volunteer and personal activities.  (I don't recall telling them I was in CAP).

I don't hate the scouts but I just see it as another youth development program, similar to other programs.  I personally thing they have too many paid personnel for what they really do.

RM         
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cadetchris
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« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2011, 08:55:27 PM »

     Something about the boy scouts;
     They used to be all about good things, and I'm sure there are still some people who live up to the former reputation, but most of what I've seen is a program that is completely run by a few controlling parents, who baby the kids. A recent example: I was at the Punta Gorda airshow working with cap. We were helping set up tents, park cars, and many other tasks. The boy scouts, on the other hand, were going up to the stalls, buying toys, and proceeding to sit on the ground and play with them while the parents did all of the work. :(
     What I can't stand is being put in the same mental category as BSA. I just hate how people stereotype us as Immature little babies who get handle anything to save their lives. (sure there are some of us out there though.)
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cap235629
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« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2011, 11:10:48 PM »

     Something about the boy scouts;
     They used to be all about good things, and I'm sure there are still some people who live up to the former reputation, but most of what I've seen is a program that is completely run by a few controlling parents, who baby the kids. A recent example: I was at the Punta Gorda airshow working with cap. We were helping set up tents, park cars, and many other tasks. The boy scouts, on the other hand, were going up to the stalls, buying toys, and proceeding to sit on the ground and play with them while the parents did all of the work. :(
     What I can't stand is being put in the same mental category as BSA. I just hate how people stereotype us as Immature little babies who get handle anything to save their lives. (sure there are some of us out there though.)

Are you a Scout? Have you ever been a Scout? What color were the uniforms of these Scouts? It matters greatly as Cub Scouts (blue Uniforms), Boy Scouts (Tan and Olive) and Venturers (Bottle Green) all are "Scouts" but the role of the parents in each program is entirely different.

Your post is an example of the "hate" that the OP was referring to.
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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AmericanRifleSpinner
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« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2011, 11:19:39 PM »

I honestly havent seen CAP hate on the boy scouts too much. Mostly the cadets in my squadron like to crack jokes at JROTC (which I dont consider appropriate).
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arBar
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Millington Composite Squadron
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2011, 12:30:38 AM »

Why hate, period?

There are lots of youth programs, civic groups, charity organizations, etc. out there, each having their own strengths and weaknesses, CAP included.

Fair criticism in the right place is one thing.  But the power of life and death are in the tongue.  Our praise and our judgments will either build up or tear down.  I think a balanced person knows how to do both in the right way. Others, well...

I've seen and heard CAP folks who have put down scouting, sea cadets, SDFs, JROTC, and CGAUX.  Why is it so common for people to hate on any group different than their own? 

As far as pecking order goes, we're not exactly at the top.  At least when I wear my scout uniform people know what it is.   (Well, actually the new BSA uniform resembles our local sheriff's uniforms and county correctional officer uniforms, so in low light conditions you get some second glances and stares.)

I say show proper respect to these other groups for what is good in them.  Just my .02
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: What's with all the hate on....
 


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