Suggestion #1: Turn the cadet program into a pilot factory

[AbnMedOps]

I popped off on entry to this forum and made a stir, so I owe some suggestions for ya'll to shoot at. Here is #1:

The most sincere form of "Aerospace Education" is training new pilots. And as for the cadet program, the capstone achievement, after learning basics of military discipline (not military fetishism), should be the achievement of some level of aeronautical rating, perhaps the new "Recreational Pilot", if not the full Private Pilot rating.

Making flight training the focus could re-energize the entire organization, and return CAP to a position of credibility in the aviation community. If structured and partnered correctly, it could also also be of significant benefit to the "renewal of General Aviation" efforts which are always in some floundering stage with AOPA, EAA,Young Eagles, Explorers, etc.

Flight training in today's world is pricey..often unnecessarily pricey. And post-license sustainment is pricey, as I know all too well. WhatI propose is THINKING BIG industry partnership, between CAP, the associations, the manufactures, the FBO / flight school community, and perhaps the military, to transform the CAP cadet program into a BIG pilot factory.

Imagine something like a scaled down version of the pre-WWII Civilian Pilot Training Corps. Industry providing large-order discount or lease-back or something, for a fairly big number of primary trainers. Possibly light sport, like the new Cessna "Sky Catcher". CAP providing, each summer, vast formations of fresh-faced, serious minded, ground-schooled cadets. A three week intensive curriculum, strong use of low-cost modern simulators and refined training methodologies, and out the other end come a bunch of highly confident, competent, and self-actualizing young men and women. (All ripe for recruitment as future drone operators, BTW, so the services have got to love that!)

A certain % will, at some point, desire to get involved (ie: spend money) on general aviation, even if it's years later. So that significantly enlarges the customer base for the GA industry, as it is much easier to sell aviation to re-trainable non-current pilots than to get them to complete flight training in their 40's and 50's, when they finally have the cash. The GA community has a demographic problem (they are old and dying off), and this may help alleviate it down the road.

That's the outline of my suggestion (or fantasy). Fire away.

[SarDragon]

I'd like a more in depth explanation of who's going to pay for it.

You mention partnerships, but you don't tell what the partners get out of the deal. For instance, why would Cessna want to fund a CAP cadet's PP certificate? Which associations? Why would they want to do the same thing? What is each partner's return on each $5000 they will be spending?

As for the military, most of my mil pilot friends have told me that the more civilian experience you have, the more they have to unteach in UPT.

[BillB]

Currently USAF pays for 5 hours of powered O-rides and 5 hours of glider O-rides per cadet. If that were flight instruction (by CAP instructors OR military UPT instructors) it would go a long way towards a cadet soloing. My local FBO has a three-axis simulator set up as a glass cockpit Cessna 172 So it may be possible to train cadets at little additional costs. One problem is the cadet aerospace education program is not designed to provide the required ground school training.
A pilot project might be setup to explore training and funding needs for a CAP equivlent "Civilian Pilot Training Corp for cadet flight instruction. The existing CAP Flight Academies are pricey as mentioned. Partnering with GA organizations might be one answer, or DoD funding might be considered. I say DoD since cadets also go into Navy or Army aviation, not onlu USAF.
During the cadet program experience, cadets get the basic military education but not the flight experience or ground school training needed for a militaryor civilian pilot. The 1940's CAP cadet program did provide these, but has changed over the years. However keep in mind not all cadets want to learn to fly. Many join just for the military experience prior to enlisting in the military services. Others might be interested in aviation management. But as AbnMedOps suggests a funded flight training program would "re-energize the programs both for Seniors and Cadets.

[Al Sayre]

While I agree that I would love to see pilot training offered to Cadets, I also worry how our FBO partners that provide many squadrons with free homes will react when most of their under 18 or under 21 students drop them like a hot potato to fly for "free" with the local CAP squadron that they have been providing space.  Right now, we are a fairly benign group of folks that clutter up their terminal one night a week.  If we start focusing on teaching cadets to fly, we become the competition that they are helping to eat their own bottom line.  Just something to consider.

[BillB]

Al
I agree, the FBO's would have to be "partnered" with a cadet flight program. In the long run they might benefit by having cadets maintain flight proficiency at their FBO. Not every squadron has a corporate aircraft for that purpose. In the short run they would be selling fuel. And when you get down to it, CAP already offers flight trining to cadets theough the National Flight Academies.

[Al Sayre]

Bill, I agree that in the long run, it would be beneficial, but for a lot of FBO's nowdays, the profit margin is alrady pretty thin.  I'm not sure buying 200-300 more gallons of fuel and (discounted) oil will make up for the lost revenue of even 2 or 3 student/renters per month.  In those areas without a CAP aircraft, we might be able to negotiate a reduced rate for our Cadets, but they simply can't compete with $28.00 + fuel and an unpaid instructor.  I think that the NFA's we have now are a good deal for both groups since the Cadets can get to the solo level fairly inexpensively when compared to doing it at the local FBO, and there is that whole quality of instruction issues that may vary from FBO to FBO, but is fairly consistent at the NFA's.  The Cadet that solos at an NFA is fairly likely to continue to fly with their local FBO when he/she get's back to their local squadron/FBO, simply because not every squadron has an aircraft and an instructor willing to work for free.  If we start doing it as a focus at the local level, they will more than likely stay with the CAP aircraft and instructor, and the FBO's lose revenue.  Perhaps a better idea would be to expand the NFA's and offer them on a more frequent basis.  Maybe something like weekly groundschool meetings, culminating with a long weekend or holiday vacation flight clinic.  3 times a year - spring break, summer vacation, winter vacation might work...  JMHO

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It seems to me that you think that CAP is all about flying. That is not so, there is much much more to CAP than just flying. Not to mention that some in CAP just aren't even considering flying. Don't try to turn CAP into another flying club, we already have an issue with that appearance in some of our squadrons, let's not compile on it.

[Pylon]

Forget the problems of funding or logistics.  On principle alone, I don't like the idea of replacing a cadet program that does an exceptional job preparing cadets to be successful, well-rounded, and positioned to be leaders in any industry they go into within the civilian sector or the military to a program that merely provides entry-level technical skills for one career path in one industry.

[BillB]

This may be another "looking for an answer to a problem that doesn't exist". But at the same time it's opening discussion on cadet training, or lack of it as far as general Aviation is concerned. To an extent CAP is already in competition with a local FBO in that members can get "cheap" flying to get advanced ratings, commercial, instrument etc. Funding for any cadet pilot training is the major factor, if offered by an FBO, a CAP Flight Academy or even a Squadrons cadet flight instruction.  Add to this the need for a ground school program which CAP doesn't address in the current cadet program, and the flight training concept becomes more outside the realm of the existing cadet program. But the possibility exists that on a National level partners or funding might be available if a cadet flight training program was considered.

[Pylon]

Bill, except CAP does provide for these things.

   
• Cadets get five front-seat orientation rides each in powered and glider craft and unlimited backseat rides.  (Keep in mind that many cadets discover during these flights that they don't have any/much interest in flying, but still get a whole lot from CAP Cadet Program anyway).
• CAP NHQ provides scholarships every year for cadets who want to pursue private pilot training but lack sufficient funds. 
• CAP arranges annual flight academies around the country which essentially take a cadet from zero knowledge through to their solo, which is their first major milestone towards achieving their PPL.
• Cadets have the opportunity to seek out private pilot instruction with CAP CFIs, and because CAP CFIs can't charge for their time and because the aircraft rental rate will be cheaper than the FBO, this is an excellent way for cadets to pursue a PPL at a substantially reduced cost.  Yet few cadets even approach CAP CFIs to ask.

We already provide the opportunities to get your ground school and flight instruction up through solo at annual academies, and free CFI training and/or scholarships to complete the rest.  The opportunity to get your PPL as a cadet at a very reduced cost exists.   Yet, relative to the whole, few cadets pursue these opportunities.  CAP NHQ/CP even tells us every year that they have more scholarship money than cadets who bother apply for it.  If current cadets aren't interested in pursuing flight scholarships free for the taking or using existing resources, what makes you think that's a compelling reason to shift the entire program in that direction?   The interest isn't there.


So yeah, I think CAP already does a stellar job of introducing cadets to a variety of career paths in aerospace, educating them about aerospace, and providing them with sufficient resources should they choose to get their PPL.  But not every cadet wants to be a pilot, in fact I would bet money right now on the spot that less than a 1/4 of CAP cadets probably want to be a pilot.


Again, I see no compelling reason to replace a well-rounded program with ample opportunities for self-starting and motivated cadets to become successful in any career with a technical skills program that provides entry-level skills for just one career path and one career path only.

[FW]

With numerous powered and non powered flight academies given each year and, with hundreds of full and partial flight scholarships we hand out, I think we do pretty good in the "pilot factory" business.  And let's not forget the hundreds of CFI's who donate their time teaching individual cadets the fundamentals of flying, donating time to teach ground schools and our thousands of O' flight pilots giving cadets their first experience of flight. 

I think it would be more appropriate for CAP to partner with AOPA and EAA to introduce more of our youth to aviation.  Additional funding would be great to assist however, every pilot who is able should find a way to introduce someone new to the joys of flight and, the benefits of General Aviation to the public. 

Our cadet program is fantastic,  it helped make me the person I am today.  I would love to see it expand to help even more.  Expanding programs like our Middle School Program, ACEs and, the like are just a few ways we can accomplish our existing mandates.   As Pylon says, we do an exceptional job of preparing our cadets to be successful. 

BTW; contributors to any organization give because they agree with its objectives, principals and, goals.  They wish it to succeed.  Partners expect something in return.  I think it is time we think about contributors instead of partners.... Partners we have.

[Thrashed]

Many cadets do join CAP for the flying (about 40% in my squadron).  Flying in CAP is still NOT cheap. The C172's are being replaced with C182 G1000's (not a trainer). There is no funding for O-flights and it is not instruction and cannot be logged. The flight academies cost $1000 for 10 hours (soloing is now discouraged). I offered to teach them as a CAP CFI and I got no takers. The nearest plane is over one hour away and its not a C172. I don't see much opportunity for pilots to fly in CAP let alone cadets.

[Eclipse]

I am all for anything which brings more resources to bear for our cadets, however making flight training the focus would bring us hundreds of members interested in flight training, however the odds are that is why they would join with no interest in the paramilitary aspects of our program.

This would simply create Good Young Boy flying clubs akin to the Good Old Boy clubs we have now.

Join, fly, quit.  "Ha, Ha, on all those G.I. Joe's who spend their Tuesdays marching around."

While those interested in CAP's total mission hold up the corners.

No thanks.

[lordmonar]

Well.....IMHO, the FBO competition thing is a non-player....we already have the option to do that now on the squadron level (assuming you have a CAP CFI willing to donate his time).  As for taking away money from the FBO...if CAP were to offer free (or cheap) flight training....I don't think that we would taking anything away from the FBO....of all my cadets over 16 (we have about 10) only two are taking flight training (one through his school).  We can also partner with the FBO where we pay them a reduced rate and they can claim the balance as a tax write off (not a tax lawyer so don't know if this is possible).

I think this is an idea worth looking into.

Some major hurdles have to be worked out:
1) Not all Cadet/composite squadrons have ready access to a plane (CAP or FBO).
2) Not all that many CAP CFI's willing to donate the time.
3) Funding, funding, funding.

As an idea goal for a part of the CAP Cadet Program I think it is line with what a lot of us expects CAP to be.

A cadet joins at 12....make getting your ground school completed a part of one of the mile stones, then tying the flight training in with advancement in the ranks.

Again......not something that would be easy to implement.....but a laudable goal.

As for what Eclipse says.....he forgets the key to how we sell CAP.  Rope them in with the carrot of flight training and in the meantime we sneak in all the Character Development, Leadership and Personal Growth goals that the real reason for the Cadet Program.

Paramilitary is not the goal of our program....but a tool we use to achieve our goals. 

As for "While those intrested in CAP's total mission".........you cannot really reconcile that statement with reality.  Cadets do not have to participate in ES (a major part of our mission), they do not have to participate in the external ES mission.  Ergo your argument falls apart.

I think that looking into the idea that one of the aims of the CP program were to graduate Private or Recreational pilots is not a bad idea.
I think that making it a mandatory part of CP would not work in the short term.  However, a workable system could be acheived.

YMMV

[NIN]

Many cadets do join CAP for the flying (about 40% in my squadron).  Flying in CAP is still NOT cheap. The C172's are being replaced with C182 G1000's (not a trainer). There is no funding for O-flights and it is not instruction and cannot be logged. The flight academies cost $1000 for 10 hours (soloing is now discouraged). I offered to teach them as a CAP CFI and I got no takers. The nearest plane is over one hour away and its not a C172. I don't see much opportunity for pilots to fly in CAP let alone cadets.

As per usual, a lot of this depends on the intersection of things like geography, aircraft availability, a critical mass of pilots (not just a CFI), a place to park a plane, etc.

My unit didn't have a plane for years, and we were co-located with the wing HQ.  It took a LOT of slogging against the tide and we finally were able to recruit a sufficient number of control-manipulators (and a CFI or two) so we could start doing our own pilot checkouts, etc.  Wing finally based a plane at our airport, and we flew the ever-lovin' wingpants off that darn thing, much to the dismay of the "ops" squadron in the wing. (LOL.. I loved that look on their face when they'd report they'd flown 4 or 5 hours on their plane(s) that month, and we'd flown like 25.  So much for the assertion that "Even if we put a plane there, you'll never fly it.")

But even before that, I had at least two cadets get their PPL from my unit CFI using the CAP plane based 45 minutes away.   They found a way to make it work (*I suspect that they did the cost-benefit analysis and determined that even driving an hour each way it was still cheaper than FBO rental*)

It takes time to make all this happen, and a lot of things have to fall into place, including aircraft scheduling, weather, CFI availability, etc.    I know you know all of this, but remember that the extra layers that CAP puts on top of the aircraft use just make it a little more difficult to nudge all the required puzzle pieces into place.  In some states, C-172s are not an option (mountains), so yeah, getting cadets checked out is even more difficult.

[tsrup]

and if a cadet did not qualify for a medical how would he complete this part of the Cadet Program if it were required?


and if the program isn't required, how would it be any different than the current system?

[lordmonar]

So....you make it optional....or you provide other routes to satisfy the requirement.

How would that be different?

Well there is not really a system to get cadets to a PPL.

We offer O-rides...that is a good thing.
We offer scholarships....that is a good thing.
We offer flight academies....that is a good thing.

What steps can we take from there?  Maybe find a source for funding to pay for local squadrons to offer flight instruction.
Tie the requirements to fly with a requirement to progress in the Cadet Program....that way you don't get a join, fly, quit, cadet.
Reward a Mitchell cadet with say 5 hour of instruction and then give them 2 more hour for each achievement after that.  Nice incentive to go for you Earhart and Eaker.

[coudano]

run an a&p / maintenance side for those who can't or don't want to actually go up in the sky

[JeffDG]

run an a&p / maintenance side for those who can't or don't want to actually go up in the sky

You know, that's a really good one.  Lots of high school kids love to tinker mechanically, and doing an A&P program would be a great way to engage them.

Another idea would be to encourage some of your pilots (or for that matter non-pilots...but I've met few pilots who don't love talking about aviation!) to pursue their BGI/AGI/IGI certifications and use non-CFIs to teach ground schools.

[RiverAux]

Unlike the time before and during WWII the Air Force and the nation have no current need for huge numbers of pilots.  If anything the abysmal salaries received by some new commercial airline pilots indicate that there are way more pilots out there than jobs (if there was a shortage, salaries would be higher). 

If we were to focus on teaching anyone to fly, it should be adults as we really do need more pilots in order to be able to accomplish our assigned missions.   I think we could work out some sort of contract with seniors wanting to fly that would require them to put up some money and agree to spend a certain number of years active (however we want to define that) as a pilot in CAP or else be required to make a large payment to CAP.  Such contracts would be legally enforceable and should ensure that the time and money CAP invests in training them is paid back one way or another.  It wouldn't actually need to be a huge program.  In a lot of wings getting 10 pilots out of it would be a big deal.