Uniforms: Things never change...gotta love consistancy

[SStradley]

I personally like the CSU uniform. I would wear it if they kept it around.

Me also (to keep it from being a "me too" post)

The CSU works, it looks good and professional.

Not every idea that HWSNBN was a bad one. Heck, I even liked the "US Civil Air Patrol" for the BDUs.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I shave every day and I too would end up with razor burn as well, but I use hydrogen peroxide after I shave and let it fizz up really good, rinse off and then use aftershave. Keeps me from getting razor burn, it is especially bad around my scars because I have to shave in three directions to get that area taken care of. Everybody has something that they don't like doing, or something that hurts or is time consuming, but we just have to take the effort and do those things that we don't like doing. Its a part of the excellence value.

[SarDragon]

Manfred, you didn't answer my question - Why is that discrimination necessary?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Manfred, you didn't answer my question - Why is that discrimination necessary?

I did, professional image. And not allowing beards is not a discrimination, not allowing the overweight would be though. How is not allowing beards a discrimination?

[lordmonar]

Well I said the before and will say it again.

If our goal is to get everone into just one uniform.....which is still debatable.....the we have to work with the USAF and our members to work out a compromise.

Fact is.....the USAF unlike the USCG has a problem with the fat and fuzzies in "their" uniform.

Any attempt to fix the "problem" must include their input and approval.

Personally....I have a problem with the multi-forms we have today.  I see it as a broken (or bent) tool.

Would I like everyone to wear the USAF uniform with a patch, CAP Cut outs, 3-line name tag and hard rank?  Sure would!
Would I like everyone in the the CSU?  Sure would..


I don't care what uniform we pick.....but we need, IMHO, to pick one and get everyone into it.

The problem seems to be....IMHO....is that no one is really pursuing the issue.  I know that we had a lot of heart burn over the last 5-6 years over this due to bad leadership and they put this on the back burner......but I think now is a good time to actively start working with the USAF.....get some good ideas from the field....and move foward on this issue.

[NCRblues]

Most people on this board really think uniforms are a major issue?

wow...just...wow

I think CAP has a LOT of other problems that are much higher up on the list of things to do.

IMHO, if during this time of budget cuts and uncertainty about our future missions, we go to the AF and want to talk uniforms, we will be laughed out the door.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Most people on this board really think uniforms are a major issue?

wow...just...wow

I think CAP has a LOT of other problems that are much higher up on the list of things to do.

IMHO, if during this time of budget cuts and uncertainty about our future missions, we go to the AF and want to talk uniforms, we will be laughed out the door.

Very true, uniforms really should take the back burner. We need to figure out how we are going to go about continuing an increase in training with a depleted budget. We still have a budget to work with, just nowhere near what it needs to be for us to continue to train and to increase our training abilities. More time in the field means more money, and we need to figure out where all of that money is going to come from, because the budget we have most likely won't sustain our air and ground ops throughout the entire year.

[Eclipse]

Most people on this board really think uniforms are a major issue?

Its a big issue specifically because it isn't complicated yet continues to be a baseline issue CAP can't get straight, and could be fixed
with a few hours of attention from people with the right pen.

We need a simple, straightforward, all-inclusive set of uniforms that meet the mission requirements.

What we have looks like it was designed by a committee, which it was.

Like so many things in the universe, the issue itself isn't the real problem, its the seeming inability to fix things and move on.

Confused uniform expectations cause confused members, uncomfortable conversations, and wasted money, not to mention the
issues of appearance and professionalism when we show up with a baker's dozen of different looks.  Put together they
cause morale and incentive issues which then foster other issues forward.

While the USAF and CAP recognize, appropriately, the honor and privilege it is to be afforded the opportunity to
wear a US military uniform, they fail to recognize how counter productive it is for those not afforded the privilege, especially
when that group includes a more than fair share of CAP's most active contributers.

[lordmonar]

Most people on this board really think uniforms are a major issue?

wow...just...wow

I think CAP has a LOT of other problems that are much higher up on the list of things to do.

IMHO, if during this time of budget cuts and uncertainty about our future missions, we go to the AF and want to talk uniforms, we will be laughed out the door.

Who said major?

As for being laughed out the door?  Why should that happen........they are still talking about uniforms while dealing with all these problems.

[Eclipse]

Most people on this board really think uniforms are a major issue?

wow...just...wow

I think CAP has a LOT of other problems that are much higher up on the list of things to do.

IMHO, if during this time of budget cuts and uncertainty about our future missions, we go to the AF and want to talk uniforms, we will be laughed out the door.

Who said major?

As for being laughed out the door?  Why should that happen........they are still talking about uniforms while dealing with all these problems.

Just noticed that - uniforms are a day-to-day operations discussion, that even the USAF is having for itself right now - the world doesn't come
to a crashing halt just because of budget issues, especially ones which don't actually cost the organization any money.  Win, lose, or draw, the
majority of the expense is shouldered by members.

[BradM]

If I could custom design a uniform for all it would be gray and in the style of the Battlestar Galactica uniforms while having a service cap with the CAP cap emblem. I like the way these uniforms close.

http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/1/1c/TighDressUniformWater.JPG

With or without the medals sash thats not the important part.  But the color and the way it closes up is what I like.

Blue ones for those in the AF grooming/weight standards and gray ones for chubbys and fuzzies

[SarDragon]

Manfred, you didn't answer my question - Why is that discrimination necessary?

I did, professional image. And not allowing beards is not a discrimination, not allowing the overweight would be though. How is not allowing beards a discrimination?

I made a choice, based on my well being. Yet the chubby people have made similar choices that are not good at all for their overall well being, and I'm the one who has to give up something.

My beard was well accepted when beards were permitted in the Navy. There is a variety of pictures of me on FB that show its current appearance. I don't have a ZZ Top, I don't have a Fu Manchu, I don't have any other long, strange, or radical beard. The amount of facial hair does not in any way inhibit my ability to do any assigned tasks. The same cannot be said for the chubby people.

For all my chubby friends out there, I'm not really trying to pick on y'all. I know that a couple of you have jobs that I'm not physically capable of performing, in spite of my skinniness. I'm just trying to point the inequities of the current rules.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Manfred, you didn't answer my question - Why is that discrimination necessary?

I did, professional image. And not allowing beards is not a discrimination, not allowing the overweight would be though. How is not allowing beards a discrimination?

I made a choice, based on my well being. Yet the chubby people have made similar choices that are not good at all for their overall well being, and I'm the one who has to give up something.

My beard was well accepted when beards were permitted in the Navy. There is a variety of pictures of me on FB that show its current appearance. I don't have a ZZ Top, I don't have a Fu Manchu, I don't have any other long, strange, or radical beard. The amount of facial hair does not in any way inhibit my ability to do any assigned tasks. The same cannot be said for the chubby people.

For all my chubby friends out there, I'm not really trying to pick on y'all. I know that a couple of you have jobs that I'm not physically capable of performing, in spite of my skinniness. I'm just trying to point the inequities of the current rules.

So it is easier to loose weight than for you to shave once a week?

[ol'fido]

We've been down this road so many times that the rut has got to be deeper than the Mariannas Trench.

[SarDragon]

I'm done.

[JeffDG]

Lemme know if I can help.  As someone from one of Her Majesty's Dominions, we're used to bowing before Royalty and showing proper deference...

I think it would probably be easier to get an audience with Her Majesty The Queen or His Excellency the Governor-General of Canada than for anyone under the rank of Brigadier General (Lieutenant Colonel Lee excepted ) to get much of anything WRT CAP across the Air Force's collective desk.

Not had the honour of meeting either Her Majesty, or His Excellency...but have had the honour of meeting the Lieutenant (which you [darn] well pronounce with the implied "f" sound) Governor of my Saskatchewan on several occasions...the amount of protocol drilled into our heads before those meetings was staggering.  Makes Dining in look like a trip to Hooters...don't want to imagine what you'd go through to meet Her Majesty herself.

[tatumrd]

Personally i hate the Blue Bdus. If CAP made cadets wear these then i would lose all respect for senior members. And then i would quit. That is all

[Eclipse]

Personally i hate the Blue Bdus. If CAP made cadets wear these then i would lose all respect for senior members. And then i would quit. That is all

Outstanding attitude.

[jimmydeanno]

It seems to me that beards, goatees, overweight, disabled, male, female, young, old, etc fit perfectly within our organizations image.  It is what we are, a civil organization available to anyone who wants to help their communities.  We aren't the military and in most cases don't have a need to have anyone be 6'0", 170lbs, able to bench press 300, 32" waist, and able to run 1/2 marathons at a whim.

I've only seen a handful of people in CAP with beards and goatees, or ponytails, as they aren't all that popular in current cultural norms - so the amount of people with "ZZ Top" style beards are slim anyway, especially when considering the ones that are members of CAP.

The bigger issue I've seen (no pun intended) is that the uniforms we have for the people who don't fit the military mold have a hard time finding uniform parts that compliment their body styles, and look nice when they're worn.  Even the ones designed for them.  I can't tell you the number of times that I've seen larger members that have the largest size polo shirt on and it doesn't fit.  Is that the member's problem, or is it our problem for not thinking of our membership?

I really could care less if I wear an AF uniform and I "fit the mold."  I would rather be able to stand, side by side, with all the members that help me and our unit accomplish what we set out to do, without looking like we're in different organizations. 

[Ned]

It seems to me that beards, goatees, overweight, disabled, male, female, young, old, etc fit perfectly within our organizations image. 

Absolutely true.

It is what we are, a civil organization available to anyone who wants to help their communities.

As long as they want to do so in the context of CP, AE, and ES, of course. 

We aren't the military and in most cases don't have a need to have anyone be 6'0", 170lbs, able to bench press 300, 32" waist, and able to run 1/2 marathons at a whim.

Of course, we do have many military aspects to our program, and all of us are encouraged to be as healthy and fit as we can be.

Wouldn't you agree?

I can't tell you the number of times that I've seen larger members that have the largest size polo shirt on and it doesn't fit.  Is that the member's problem, or is it our problem for not thinking of our membership?

Well, since VG sells polos in XXXXL, which according to their size chart fits someone with a 22 inch neck, 60 inch chest, and a 54 inch waist, at some point it really is primarily the member's problem.

We cannot reasonably be expected to have uniforms that fit every human being on the planet regardless of disease or condition. 

Call it the "99.999% solution."

I would rather be able to stand, side by side, with all the members that help me and our unit accomplish what we set out to do, without looking like we're in different organizations.

So, when you see some folks from the USAF standing side by side, and one is wearing a flight suit, one ABUs, one in blues, and yet another in cook's whites, do you really say "Wow, an AF Guy and three other folks . . . "?