Military spending cuts - should CAP be worried?

[RiverAux]

Since it appears the the SECDEF is on a budget cutting rampage lately, I've got to wonder just how much of a threat CAP might be facing.  Sure, we always slightly at risk as we've got a cadet program that is redundant (or you can view JROTC as redundant given CAP's cadet program) and our main operational missions aren't terribly vital to AF operations.  Obviously, we represent a tiny part of the budget, but when SECDEF is looking at whacking 4-stars and closing major commmands to save money, we can't disregard the threat.

Yes, we've got a few supporters in Congress but if push comes to shove and they have to put their weight behind saving military-related jobs in their District or saving funding for CAP, I think we know which one they'll choose. 

I think the one major thing that CAP has going for it is that so many states also step up to provide funding for CAP operations.  That shows that the burden isn't entirely on the federal government.  Of course, states are facing funding crisis of their own right now so that support isn't guaranteed. 

Am I the only one significantly concerned about this?

[Eclipse]

Am I the only one significantly concerned about this?

Significantly?  Probably.

I would expect another "war tax", but nothing that radically changes the organization.

[DakRadz]

Sure, we always slightly at risk as we've got a cadet program that is redundant (or you can view JROTC as redundant given CAP's cadet program) and our main operational missions aren't terribly vital to AF operations.
sneep

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00002031----000-.html

The Secretary of each military department shall establish and maintain a Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps

CAP's cadet program is not redundant- the opportunities are much varied than that of even AFJROTC (with the exception of the Leadership and AE curriculum). I know this is fairly common knowledge, but I love all three of the cadet programs I've been in, so I feel obliged to defend

However, technically it would be CAP that is redundant, as it is not the "official" cadet program.

UNSCC is the cadet program of the USCG, in lieu of a JROTC program, per COMDTINST 5728.2C

Back to my lane, good sirs.

[RADIOMAN015]

Since it appears the the SECDEF is on a budget cutting rampage lately, I've got to wonder just how much of a threat CAP might be facing.  Sure, we always slightly at risk as we've got a cadet program that is redundant (or you can view JROTC as redundant given CAP's cadet program) and our main operational missions aren't terribly vital to AF operations.  Obviously, we represent a tiny part of the budget, but when SECDEF is looking at whacking 4-stars and closing major commmands to save money, we can't disregard the threat.

Yes, we've got a few supporters in Congress but if push comes to shove and they have to put their weight behind saving military-related jobs in their District or saving funding for CAP, I think we know which one they'll choose. 

I think the one major thing that CAP has going for it is that so many states also step up to provide funding for CAP operations.  That shows that the burden isn't entirely on the federal government.  Of course, states are facing funding crisis of their own right now so that support isn't guaranteed. 

Am I the only one significantly concerned about this?

Well CAP has three missions BUT primarily ES & cadet programs are funded by the USAF, very little goes to external aerospace education (which is primarily funded by the membership).  It depends what our statement of work (contract) with the AF says we will do.   Funding could drive a change in some missions in the future.

I personally think that there's a moderate risk that perhaps up to 25% of the aircraft fleet will eventually be cut.   With the recession continuing, individual members use of the aircraft is down, cause they just can't afford it and this has a snowballing effect.  Additionally, with computer enhancements, somewhere down the line I would suspect there will be more cuts to the national headquarters support staff.

I'm not sure what state you are in but many states have eliminated any financial support to CAP.

Unfortunately, every level of government is having to make some tough choices.  I think one of the reasons why CAP doesn't have a good strategic plan is that everything is tied to AF funding of the organization, and until other consistent funding/revenue streams can
be developed, it's difficult to plan.

Also CAP at every level needs to ensure that at the very least our congressional representatives are aware of what we do in their respective districts.  Also at the state level this is important.   Local & County wise, it depends what one is getting from them in inkind type support.

HOWEVER, many state bureacrats are very protective of their positions, and their unions further protect them  -- they aren't looking for unpaid volunteers to take away their well paying jobs/benefits to include vast amounts of overtime pay when emergencies arise.   However, in smaller/rural communities, it really is the volunteers that contribute to the communities well being, and perhaps that's where CAP will achieve its' best success
RM

[lordmonar]

Since it appears the the SECDEF is on a budget cutting rampage lately, I've got to wonder just how much of a threat CAP might be facing.  Sure, we always slightly at risk as we've got a cadet program that is redundant (or you can view JROTC as redundant given CAP's cadet program) and our main operational missions aren't terribly vital to AF operations.  Obviously, we represent a tiny part of the budget, but when SECDEF is looking at whacking 4-stars and closing major commmands to save money, we can't disregard the threat.

Yes, we've got a few supporters in Congress but if push comes to shove and they have to put their weight behind saving military-related jobs in their District or saving funding for CAP, I think we know which one they'll choose. 

I think the one major thing that CAP has going for it is that so many states also step up to provide funding for CAP operations.  That shows that the burden isn't entirely on the federal government.  Of course, states are facing funding crisis of their own right now so that support isn't guaranteed. 

Am I the only one significantly concerned about this?

I'm not worried that our USAF budget will bet cut at all....CAP still gets the USAF a lot of bang for the buck.

[RiverAux]

I'm not worried that our USAF budget will bet cut at all....CAP still gets the USAF a lot of bang for the buck.

Good programs get cut all the time.  I'm sure Joint Forces Command was doing a great job too....

[EMT-83]

Am I worried about budget cuts? No.

I save my worrying for things that I can control. I sleep better at night that way.

[Eclipse]

I personally think that there's a moderate risk that perhaps up to 25% of the aircraft fleet will eventually be cut.

With the recession continuing, individual members use of the aircraft is down, cause they just can't afford it and this has a snowballing effect.  Additionally, with computer enhancements, somewhere down the line I would suspect there will be more cuts to the national headquarters support staff.

That's awesome.

You have no data to support that other that anecdotal observation, yet you make those assertions like they were fact.
In my AOR people are flying the wings off the planes and we could probably handle 2-3 more.

[vmstan]

Am I worried about budget cuts? No.

I save my worrying for things that I can control. I sleep better at night that way.

Agreed.

As long as they don't cut my CAP pay, I'll be fine.

[lordmonar]

I'm not worried that our USAF budget will bet cut at all....CAP still gets the USAF a lot of bang for the buck.

Good programs get cut all the time.  I'm sure Joint Forces Command was doing a great job too....

It is about cost/benifits.

USAF can't cut CAP's operating budget with out picking up the operational mission.   There is no way the USAF can do that right now!

The amount of money the USAF gives us for CP is almost negligable!

The USAF is giving us a total of $26M in their 2011 budget.  80% of that goes to operational side of the house.  CP is mostly paid for by CAP not the USAF. 

[RiverAux]

USAF can't cut CAP's operating budget with out picking up the operational mission.   There is no way the USAF can do that right now!

To my knowledge USAF isn't required to use its own resources (including CAP) to prosecute any of the sorts of missions performed by CAP.  I've never heard of an instance where the AF has gotten in trouble for not sending AF personnel to perform a mission because no CAP assets were available.  They could fulfill any federal responsibilities while sitting at a desk.  The fact that AFRCC regularly uses forces other than CAP to prosecute various missions demonstrates that there is no mission out there that they are REQUIRED to use CAP for. 

Keep in mind that Congress can change any federal law, policy, or procedure it wants at the drop of a hat.  I'm talking about budget cuts at the DoD/Congress level, not the regular hack jobs that the AF proposes to our budget. 

[FW]

I don't worry about such things either...anymore.  First of all, almost all of our Air Force Appropriated grant is used to support our NHQ.  Funds for purchasing aircraft comes directly as an additional line item; thanks to our 2 great senators from Kansas and a "little company" based in Wichita. The rest of our grant pays for flying and maintenance of our aircraft, uniforms for cadets, commo gear and computers.
Now that our commo gear is all shinny and new, expect major reductions in that expense category.
We could also expect to lose some funds for NHQ staffing or mission training/O'flights, etc.  How any cuts would effect us would be a decision for the BoG after consultation with the NEC and EX. 
IF, we do have cuts (usually threatened every year at about $4 million), expect less service at national, increased out of pocket expenses for members and, higher costs to "outside agencies" for our services. 

To an executive looking at the numbers, finding additional funding sources would be a priority.  Unfortunately, to this casual observer, not much is happening in this endeavour.

[RiverAux]

I'm not talking about our regular disagreements with the AF about our funding, I'm talking about the threat of the whole deal being whacked (more accurately, asking to whack) from the SECDEF level.  If he is looking at eliminating entire Commands, then our little operation certainly isn't safe. 

[billford1]

If the OMB looks at the overall federal budget I'll bet the CAP budget can be saved by a very small cut in the travel budget for federal employees.

[Short Field]

If he is looking at eliminating entire Commands, then our little operation certainly isn't safe.

CAP is so minor in the SECDEF view of the world I would be amazed if it could even hit his radar screen.  Cut CAP, the organization that flies 60%-80% of AFNorth's daily sorties and devoted more than 40,000 hrs to support SAR in 2008, so DoD can save one O-6 billet for use elsewhere?  The cost savings would not be worth the grief of trying to explain the decision to even one congressman.

[lordmonar]

USAF can't cut CAP's operating budget with out picking up the operational mission.   There is no way the USAF can do that right now!

To my knowledge USAF isn't required to use its own resources (including CAP) to prosecute any of the sorts of missions performed by CAP.  I've never heard of an instance where the AF has gotten in trouble for not sending AF personnel to perform a mission because no CAP assets were available.  They could fulfill any federal responsibilities while sitting at a desk.  The fact that AFRCC regularly uses forces other than CAP to prosecute various missions demonstrates that there is no mission out there that they are REQUIRED to use CAP for. 

Keep in mind that Congress can change any federal law, policy, or procedure it wants at the drop of a hat.  I'm talking about budget cuts at the DoD/Congress level, not the regular hack jobs that the AF proposes to our budget.

Sure....you want to be the senator that axed the search and rescue provider.....you might at least just drop the Forest Service or the you local fire department.

Sure congress has the power and the USAF may see the need to axe a little $26M line item in their budget....but it is not as simple as that.

As you asked....no I don't see anyone eyeing CAP as a cheap source of funds to pay for something else.

[Short Field]

UNSCC is the cadet program of the USCG, in lieu of a JROTC program, per COMDTINST 5728.2C

The current USCG Public Affairs Manuel is COMDTINST 5728.2D.  2C was replaced by 2D two years ago.  UNSCC is NOT the cadet program of the USCG.  UNSCC is the preferred youth organization for USCG support - followed closely by the Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, etc.

[FARRIER]

We could also expect to lose some funds for NHQ staffing or mission training/O'flights, etc.  How any cuts would effect us would be a decision for the BoG after consultation with the NEC and EX. 
IF, we do have cuts (usually threatened every year at about $4 million), expect less service at national, increased out of pocket expenses for members and, higher costs to "outside agencies" for our services.

Not wanting to put someone on unemployment, but if it came to cutting staff, couldn't some of this work be transitioned to volunteers?

[DakRadz]

UNSCC is the cadet program of the USCG, in lieu of a JROTC program, per COMDTINST 5728.2C

The current USCG Public Affairs Manuel is COMDTINST 5728.2D.  2C was replaced by 2D two years ago.  UNSCC is NOT the cadet program of the USCG.  UNSCC is the preferred youth organization for USCG support - followed closely by the Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, etc.

Conceded sir. When I have more time I will do a bit more digging- what I was thinking of wasn't Wiki, but it did have a few remarks pertaining to this. To avoid derailment, I'll PM that if it exists/I can find it.

[FW]

Not wanting to put someone on unemployment, but if it came to cutting staff, couldn't some of this work be transitioned to volunteers?

Of course we could however, the paid staff is down to about 90 employees.  Most are either clerical staff or management dealing with multiple areas.  Then we have the Wing Financial Analysts.  Most of the employees deal with IT issues, logistics and, financial management.  There is no way, IMHO, we could cut anymore meat from these bones.  We tried an all volunteer safety dept. That didn't work.  The Chaplains Corps did (with paid clerical help).   

However, if this thread is dealing with the total removal of our annual grant, CAP would still exist as an organization.  It would be just populated with volunteers who could afford to "Come and Pay".  The National HQ. would be a small office which could be supported by our current endowment. Fund raising and member support would be their goal. Dues would increase tremendously. Our "fleet" would return to a collection of member owned aircraft. Vehicles would come from DRMO or other donated sources, as would our other equipment. Cadets would buy all their own uniforms.  It would be kind of like the "old days" all over again. 

Now, realistically, this kind of scenario will just not IMO happen.  We help support Cessna.  We help support Textron and Garmin.  We help support numerous other corporations who don't want to see us go away.  Plus, our AF friends can count on numerous  O5 and O6 slots at CAP-USAF and at the Pentagon.  Also, 1st Air Force would have to spend additional millions to do what we now do for them.  I think we will be safe; as long as we do our jobs in a professional manner and keep being successfull in our missions.