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Author Topic: Georgia Wing Banking  (Read 20382 times)
ADCAPer
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« on: November 27, 2006, 05:18:19 PM »

Does anyone have any insight into what is going on in Georgia in reference to the Wing Banking Program?
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ELTHunter
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2006, 07:13:34 PM »

I've only heard it mentioned in general that, at some point, all the squadron funds will be administered put of the wings so that they can have better audit results visibility of expendatures.  I have also heard that many squadrons are going to be spending there remaining funds before this happens, as they believe that it will be difficult to get their access to the money they raised after it is under wing control.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 07:41:52 PM »

Does anyone have any insight into what is going on in Georgia in reference to the Wing Banking Program?

There's a lot more information contained in the CAPTalk discussion Virginia Wing's "Wing Bank Solution".   :)
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 08:03:36 PM »

To summarize:

This is a National program, being phased in gradually.  We were told in ILWG over two years, but the last I heard from a reliable source, was that everyone is just "so darned happy" with the idea that they are accelerating the implementation.

Nutshell:

Units write a check to their Wing and close all local accounts.

Wing issues all checks, based on check requests issued by the local FM.

No unit relief of accounting or reporting - all units still required to have an FM and finance committee.

Barring malfeasance, Wing bankers will have no more (or less) say about how the money is spent then they do today.

Many questions to be answered, but get used to it, this will happen, and this thread (or the other one) is not the place to say it shouldn't, can't or won't.  The plan is approved, all that remains for the states not doing it is the schedule.

As a side note, “alternate” funding schemes such as foundations, are against regs because they would redirect funds from the corporation, which is verboten,  and “spending all your money in advance, because the hell if wing will get it…” is a childish response that I have heard way too much locally.




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arajca
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 08:13:56 PM »

Colorado has implemented it already. So far, it seems to be working well. The wing administrator writes the checks and the authorized signers come in twice a week to sign. The average turn around is about a week, including mailing time. The wing administrator is not one of the signers.
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fyrfitrmedic
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 08:23:47 PM »

PAWG is in the midst of the implementation process.

Is it working? Too soon to tell from this angle.
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MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
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davedove
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 08:42:25 PM »

The wing administrator writes the checks and the authorized signers come in twice a week to sign. The average turn around is about a week, including mailing time.

This is the potential headache.  As long as the wing personnel are prompt, everything should work okay.

This was discussed at the MD Wing Conference and they are planning to implement it sometime in the next couple of years.
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David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
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BillB
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 08:46:32 PM »

I checked with two fixed base operators in Florida. If there is a CAP mssion, they accept, cash, credit card or check for fuel. They will not wait a week or longer for payment. This means members will have to pay for fuel used on Air Force mssions, and hope to get their money back prior to the credit card company adding interest, and many credit cards charge interest from date of purchase.
While those two widely separated FBOs may not be represenative of FBOs, it does indicate a problem for members. Military aircraft coming to those FBOs have no problem, every military aircraft carries a Government credit card. A program that CAP dropped years ago.

And what do you do when a bunch of cadets order insignia and pay cash? Since the Squadron can't have a checking account, they have to purchase a money order to send to Wing.  An added expense to the local units.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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ELTHunter
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 08:58:21 PM »

No unit relief of accounting or reporting - all units still required to have an FM and finance committee.

Where, might I ask is this helping the squadron's?  Same bureaucratic stuff to put up with and harder to get a check.


Many questions to be answered, but get used to it, this will happen, and this thread (or the other one) is not the place to say it shouldn't, can't or won't.  The plan is approved, all that remains for the states not doing it is the schedule.

Where is the correct place?


As a side note, “alternate” funding schemes such as foundations, are against regs because they would redirect funds from the corporation, which is verboten,  and “spending all your money in advance, because the hell if wing will get it…” is a childish response that I have heard way too much locally.

I have heard stories of members and/or squadrons buying or donating equipment and then their wing decides it would be nice for the Wing to have, thus it gets appropriated from the squadron who earned/bought/donated/built it.  I think this is where the suspicion comes from.

The squadrons may not be able to use alternate funding schemes, but they can choose to abandon independent fund raising, which won't do anyone any good.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
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ELTHunter
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 08:59:30 PM »

Colorado has implemented it already. So far, it seems to be working well. The wing administrator writes the checks and the authorized signers come in twice a week to sign. The average turn around is about a week, including mailing time. The wing administrator is not one of the signers.

So do the squadron signers remain the same, or is that delegated to the Wing?  How would it work for squardon's that are not located near a Wing HQ?
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 09:04:14 PM »

OK - I guess we'll extend this here.

Have your members order their own insignia.

Many wings till have Wing charge in their airplanes, established accounts, or just don't do business with particular FBOs.

Get a real charge card or don't assume the responsibility.

The bank plan specifically indicates that SOP in many cases will be for the member / commander, etc., to assume the cost and request reimbursiment.
If you can't afford it, don't do it, someone else will, or the item / event will simply not happen.

Some of us have legit issues with power and light bills, or encampments that incur 10's of thousands of dollars in expenses, while others seem to think that this plan will live or die because of unit insignia stores.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 09:09:11 PM »

Colorado has implemented it already. So far, it seems to be working well. The wing administrator writes the checks and the authorized signers come in twice a week to sign. The average turn around is about a week, including mailing time. The wing administrator is not one of the signers.

So do the squadron signers remain the same, or is that delegated to the Wing?  How would it work for squardon's that are not located near a Wing HQ?

Signers, FM's and committee remains the same.

What you do if you are far from your HQ is one of the questions.

In ILWG, though the information will be held in a single place, with an "account" for each unit, the actual funds, it is assumed, will actually be in 5-6  banks across the states, and units FM's will make their own deposits.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 09:37:50 PM »

Regarding Foundations...take a look at the Iowa Wing web page.  Apparently they have a non-profit foundation set up to take donations.  Doesn't smell right to me.... especially since the foundation's email account is a cap.gov account.  http://www.iawg.cap.gov/foundation/home.html
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arajca
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 09:52:42 PM »

The unit signers sign the check request. The wing signers sign the check.
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Pylon
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 10:12:54 PM »

Regarding Foundations...take a look at the Iowa Wing web page.  Apparently they have a non-profit foundation set up to take donations.  Doesn't smell right to me.... especially since the foundation's email account is a cap.gov account.  http://www.iawg.cap.gov/foundation/home.html

Not to derail the discussion, but CAP can't "forbid" Foundations.  Any group of people can choose to set-up a 501(c)(3) corporation; CAP can't prevent citizens from doing that.

A group of people who care about the mission of a particular wing/group/squadron, such as members of the unit, spouses and family members of CAP members, parents of cadets, and community members, can form a corporation who's purpose is (in a very small nutshell) to collect funds to support the specific unit.

It takes paperwork, redtape, and legal knowledge, but it's doable and not illegal.  If CAP says members can't participate, CAP can't tell member's friends, family, spouses, parents, and others what they can and cannot do.

In many situations, especially if a unit has a member who is, or has access to, a professional fundraiser, a Foundation would be a very wise choise to hold cash donations and assets.   A squadron properly run could easily acquire, through community fundraising and grantwriting, tens of thousands of dollars and even grants for buildings and other useful items.

One has to be very careful in distinguishing the business of the foundation from the unit; they need to be completely separated and no CAP/unit funds or materials should be used to assist the foundation or perform foundation business.   But so long as the CAP unit's actual money and property is properly managed as it should, and the Foundation simply makes donations of purchased materials or donations of cash to the unit (with Wing approval to accept the donations if necessary), there is no other jurisdiction of CAP regulations upon the foundation.

I have a bit of insight on this, as a member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals and because I work for a Foundation that supports a mostly government-funded, but still private corporation. 

But I think this is a whole topic unto it's own, probably best for another thread...
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
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ELTHunter
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2006, 10:14:20 PM »

I'm not neccessarily against it, as long as the squadon still has the yea or nea over the use of the funds they raised.  Within reason and regulations.  I seems to take a long time to get reimbursed for funded missions, but maybe that is because of the approval process in place for that.  So long, in fact, that I view submitting 108's like a lottery ticket......if I ever do get paid, it's like found money.  For a ground team leader it's not so bad, but I know pilots who have had hundreds of dollars of their own money hanging out there for months before getting repaid.

It just seems that the members are asked more and more to inconvienience themselves for doing volunteer work where we already pay to be in the organization in the first place.

As for my unit, it won't be a big impact.  We have no significant bills to pay other than insignia, incidental supplies and the odd gas/oil for squadron activities.
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Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2006, 10:43:08 PM »

I've beat this up pretty hard with my Group's legal officer, who has inturn discussed it w/ NHQ.

The ones which are specifically banned would be the ones where the unit CC directs members to forgo donating funds (i.e. dues, etc.) direct to the unit in an effort to bypass Wing control of the money (or other 173-3 regs).

But in practical reality, there is no way for one of these foundations to function, attached to a specific unit, without input / direction from the unit staff.

Since all CAP money is corporate money, any suggestion that money intended for direct donation instead be given "elsewhere", could be considered diversion of funds, which is a violation of the law, not just regs.

IANAL, YMMV, blah, blah.

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arajca
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2006, 10:48:36 PM »

As for ongoing bills (utilities, etc), an authoriztaion can be given to the wing by the finance committee along with having the bill sent to wing for payment. Wing will make the payment - using your unit's money, of course - every billing cycle.
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Pylon
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Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2006, 10:55:08 PM »

Since all CAP money is corporate money, any suggestion that money intended for direct donation instead be given "elsewhere", could be considered diversion of funds, which is a violation of the law, not just regs.

Not if the donation was soliticted in the first place directly by the Foundation.   In other words, community member Joe Smith receives a letter from CAP XYZ Foundation asking for a donation to the squadron.  Joe writes check to Foundation because he got the direct mail solitication and liked the pretty pictures in the letter.  Joe writes check and puts in return envelope that goes to Foundation's P.O. Box.  Foundation staff/volunteer deposits Joe's generous donation of 52 cents into the Foundation's coffers.

Joe's donation is not redirecting money that would have otherwise gone to CAP, because frankly, CAP never would have written Joe asking for a donation of money.

But yes -- there is a very fine, legal line that needs to be watched closely with the Foundation/supported agency relationship -- both for CAP and for other like-structured Foundations.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
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BlackKnight
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2006, 11:00:27 PM »

Quote
Many questions to be answered, but get used to it, this will happen, and this thread (or the other one) is not the place to say it shouldn't, can't or won't.  The plan is approved, all that remains for the states not doing it is the schedule.
The entire wing bank concept was in dramatic conflict with approved CAP finance regulations until the revised regulations hit the street on 8 Nov 06.  Thus all orders requiring participation in the wing bank were technically invalid until 8 Nov.  This takes us over to the parallel CAPTalk thread at http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1077.0.  Substitute CAPR 173-1 for CAPM 39-1 or CAPR 60-3 and you get the picture.  I still don't understand how the Virginia Wing operated in open conflict with CAPR 173-1 for such a long time while they developed the wing banker concept.

Speaking of the revised CAPR 173-1 and related regulations, those of you with a little curiosity should take a look at CAPR 5-1.  This is the master regulation that describes the only methods by which CAP regulations may be issued and revised.  Note the mandatory 60-day comment period where the drafts must be posted on a CAP website accessible to all members.  Did we miss something here?  How did CAPR 173-1 and the related regulations get revised without the comment period?   I don't think this meets the criterion for emergency revisions to "protect life or property".   Note also the clear statements that no member shall be penalized for non-compliance with a regulation prior to the time it is published pursuant to CAP regulations.
So it's a fine mess we have here.  Is the current CAPR 173-1 and related revised regulations valid? It does not appear that they were published pursuant to CAP regulations. Do we default back to the previous editions? 
 
Quote
As a side note, “alternate” funding schemes such as foundations, are against regs because they would redirect funds from the corporation, which is verboten...
 
I think it's pretty clear that existing CAP funds cannot and should not be intentionally diverted to avoid the wing bank.  However, I do not see how CAP can possibly have any control over how other non-profit agencies or trusts manage their funds.  I would be interested to see a direct reference to that Omnipotent regulation!  ;)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 06:16:33 PM by Galahad » Report to moderator   Logged
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
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