Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 26, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Georgia Wing Banking
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Send this topic Print
Author Topic: Georgia Wing Banking  (Read 20383 times)
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,978

« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2006, 08:36:42 PM »

Don't they have a Nov-dated 173-3 up on the web page right now?
Report to moderator   Logged
TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2006, 08:39:03 PM »

OK...

CAPR 173-1 does not itself force Wings to use the Wing Banking Program.  There is a separate policy letter on this.  (It may also be in some NEC minutes.  I'm not sure.)   There is a timeline that will eventually have all Wings on this program.  CAPR 173-1 has been revised to be in a transition state right now.  Eventually, it will change for everyone, and the CAPR 173-1 will be rewritten again to reflect that.

NHQ has lain down the ground rules for this program.  There is a guide book that lays down what the framework as to how the program works.  Wings then can lay down how to work within that framework in order to best suit their needs. 

I can understand why NHQ hasn't put the program on-line yet.  When it is your turn to implement the program, your WIFA (whom is an NHQ employee) will work with your Wing CC and Wing FO to implement the program.  This way, there is little misunderstanding during the implementation. 

NHQ has made it clear through channels this is coming.  Just because it isn't on the website, doesn't mean it isn't legit.  And, if you don't have all the information, I'd say it's more of a communications issue in your chain of command.
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2006, 08:40:32 PM »

Don't they have a Nov-dated 173-3 up on the web page right now?

Yes.  Although, CAPR 173-1 is the reg that is important in this aspect.  (It is November dates as well.)
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
ADCAPer
Member

Posts: 89

« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2006, 08:51:20 PM »

OK...

NHQ has lain down the ground rules for this program.  There is a guide book that lays down what the framework as to how the program works.  Wings then can lay down how to work within that framework in order to best suit their needs. 

I can understand why NHQ hasn't put the program on-line yet.  When it is your turn to implement the program, your WIFA (whom is an NHQ employee) will work with your Wing CC and Wing FO to implement the program.  This way, there is little misunderstanding during the implementation. 


I understand that National has said that this is coming, however CAPR 173-1 says nothing about being in a transitional state. I also cannot comprehend that a policy letter on finance would trump the CAP Constitution, which states that: All funds and property acquired by Civil Air Patrol in any manner and from whatever sources shall be received in the name of Civil Air Patrol and shall become the property of the Corporation, and shall be administered and accounted for as prescribed in the Bylaws and regulations."

It just seems to me that it's going to be impossible to meet the constitutional requirement when National can't get a decent regulation out there.
Report to moderator   Logged
TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2006, 09:00:36 PM »

Well. CAPR 173-1... it refers to exemptions for Wings participating in the WBP all over the place.  The regulation doesn't talk about it being transitional.  But, eventually, as written, it will be obsolete.  (As, all units will be in wings participating in WBP.  Thus, making all the paragraphs in there describing things they are exempt from useless.)  Thus it is implied that it is transitional.  Plus, that is the current intent.

You can whine about it all you want.  But it is here for some of us, and coming for everyone else.  The program, while having some bugs, is pretty good.  (It's not the doom and gloom many people are saying it is.)

Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,662

« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2006, 09:12:49 PM »

What has it reduced locally?

For starters... no more checks and statements to deal with.  Wing handles it all.  This is especially nice with monthly bills.  In fact, you can pretty much not worry about Paragraph 5 of CAPR 173-1, and all its sub-items.  (That's all the banking procedures.)

No more CAPF 173-2.

No more maintaining Financial Records per paragraph 13.  Your financial review (per paragraph 14) will practically be done for you.  Same with paragraph 15 (with some items exempted as well).

Basically, most of the busywork you had before is cut out.  You lose some conveniece of having a checkbook.  But, if your wing is on the ball, you can get a check the next day.

So, for the most part, the things you have to worry about are Finance Commitee type things, like their approvals, minutes and whatnot.  (Which, you already do anyway...)

I'm not seeing it this way at all.

The ONLY thing relived is putting a stamp in the mail.

Units are still required to do full record keeping, file an annual financial report, tracks their expenses, do budgets, etc.

The only difference is WHAT bank its in, and that there is an extra step to paying a bill.
Report to moderator   Logged


TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2006, 09:34:56 PM »


Units are still required to do full record keeping, file an annual financial report, tracks their expenses, do budgets, etc.



For the most part... not really.

My wing tracks my expenses and provides me with a monthly list.  I can keep a record if I want... but Wing tracks this for me and provides me with the report.  And, a budget is actually not required.  Sure... you probably want to do it.  But, it's not a requirement per CAPR 173-1.

As for record keeping and an annual report:

"5. Banking Policies. Units participating in the Wing Banker Program are excluded from these banking requirements."

13. Financial Records.  ... "Units participating in the Wing Banker Program are excluded from this requirement as all financial documentation will be retained at Wing level."


15. Reporting.

"c. Each group, squadron, and flight will, on or before 1 November of each year, submit direct to wing headquarters one copy of CAPF 173-2 for the preceding fiscal year. ... Units participating in the Wing Banker Program are excluded from this reporting requirement."


Oh... and some of the work is done for you... per regs...

14. Financial Review.  "Upon change of a unit commander and/or finance officer, an internal review must be performed. ... Units participating in the Wing Banker Program will be provided with an updated financial report from Wing level detailing the unitís banking activity and fund balances for the past year."
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2006, 09:51:33 PM »

Here's an example of how this program can reduce your workload... other than the specific exclusions in the new CAPR 173-1.

Lets say you have the following routine expenses:

1- Hangar rent
2- Aircraft fuel bill
3- Telephone bill
4- Electrical bill
5- Gas (Heating) bill
6- Water/sewer bill
7- Aircraft oil changes
8- Van oil changes

Right now... you would probably be cutting 8 checks a month for this.

Under the WBP, you can write a Finance Committe memo approving the above to be identified as reocurring expenses, and paid by Wing HQ from your account.  You then have your bills routed to your Wing HQ (or wherever they tell you to send them.)  You then send that memo to Wing HQ.  That's it!

So, you have your FC appointed for a year.  So, for the year, you write and mail this memo once.  Or, you can mail 96 checks through the year to pay the bills.

1 document mailed... or 96. 

Your unit might not have all of these routine expenses... but... some do!
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,662

« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2006, 10:28:31 PM »

WOW!   :o

I stand extremely corrected and will need to review the updated 173's!

None of this information was available when the initial discussions were
had and all indications were that no relief from any reporting was provided by the plan.

The above would indicate that there is at least SOME payback for the hassle.

Its THESE kinds of dicsussions that make these boards worthwhile.
Report to moderator   Logged


TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2006, 10:40:20 PM »

While Wing Banking does introduce some hassles here... it eliminates (in my opinion) way more that in adds.

It also helps that our Wing Administrator is a super guy and super efficient... I guess he's just a super hero.  (Sans tights and cape.)

If your wing administrator takes 8 weeks to turn around anything... well... it will suck for you.
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2006, 12:30:38 AM »

Like any other new program, it'll suck till they knock the dirt off. That could be dangerous on finance, but hopefully your Wing will be extremely careful in transition, and I'm glad they're only doing a few wings at once. I'm sure most of our headaches will be worked out over time. There wer other ways to go about this though. The Wg FM could have had read-only access to account records for instance, they could have required everyone to go thru one back to simplify that. Or they could have gone the route I suggested above, which is to not consider locally raised funds or property purchased with them as property of the corporation, and as such they are outside the big picture audit & have zero effect on it being certified w/o qualifications. What the people providing grants out there are looking for is a pattern of the corporation responsibilly spending its own moeny on the things its appropriated for, so that when they give you a hundred grand to help pay for members to attend NIMS courses or pay deployed per diem like some other orgs do off grant money, then the moeny will actually go to that & no one will be rigging up records to cover for the personal Vegas trip. Locally raised & spent funds have nothing to do with that & there's no reason they need to be considered in the audit except to preserve the ability of Wg/Reg/NHQ to come take your generator or recruiting rig.
Report to moderator   Logged
ADCAPer
Member

Posts: 89

« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2006, 03:21:14 AM »

I'm just wondering what will happen by the time this program gets around to my area. I wasn't impressed with how this program is being implemented to begin with, but now I'm being told that in GA at least there won't even be separate accounts, the wing is going to pool all of the money in one bank account and then track the squadrons balances separately in some type of accounting software.

If there was at least a decent regulation out there I wouldn't be so skeptical, but I have a really bad feeling about the way this is being handled. I'm not accusing anyone of being a crook, but I believe that there had to be a better way to do this that didn't raise so many ethical red flags.
Report to moderator   Logged
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,978

« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2006, 04:30:31 AM »

Yes, only 1 bank account but a certain amount of it will belong to each squadron.  Its really no big deal to track things that way. 
Report to moderator   Logged
capchiro
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 577

« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2006, 02:38:05 PM »

Until the mandatory SNAFU that invariably strikes.  You know, when one unit's deposit is attributed to another unit, or when one unit's bills are charged to another unit, etc.  I think the squadron will need to still maintain squadron records of all deposits and expenses to make sure that the Wing record is correct on a monthly basis.  A Wing having 60 squadrons with each sending in deposits and withdrawals is ripe for mistaken entries, etc.  Of course, one should trust Wing with all of their money, even if that Wing was $30,000.00 in the hole when the new Wing Commander was appointed, but I digress.     
Report to moderator   Logged
Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
Commander
Sweetwater Comp. Sqdn.
GA154
Psicorp
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 605

« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2006, 03:05:52 PM »

The one question I have about this is about reciepts.  If you set up your bills to go to Wing and Wing pays them, the only way you'd know they didn't is when you get an over-due notice...or worse, an eviction notice. 

Units keeping their own records I think would be vital.   It seems to me that the best way to do it would be for the unit to recieve the bills then forward them to Wing monthly, each bill should have the date and the amount that was paid for the previous month which can be used for record keeping.   

The Wing Bank isn't a bad idea, all things considered.   
Report to moderator   Logged
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257
TankerT
Seasoned Member

Posts: 308

« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2006, 03:17:45 PM »

The one question I have about this is about reciepts.  If you set up your bills to go to Wing and Wing pays them, the only way you'd know they didn't is when you get an over-due notice...or worse, an eviction notice.   

Well.  You wouldn't get an overdue notice as the bills would go to Wing HQ... to include the overdue notice.

However, you would get a monthly print out of what was paid to whom, and it would be easy to see if your payment for your rental was paid or not, without your keeping records locally.
Report to moderator   Logged

/Insert Snappy Comment Here
smj58501
Seasoned Member

Posts: 221

« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2006, 04:17:50 PM »

Yes, only 1 bank account but a certain amount of it will belong to each squadron.  Its really no big deal to track things that way. 

On paper all this appears fine, well, and streamlined... i.e. it "should" work as advertised. My one concern is what is detailed above.

To use an example....  X Sqdn puts together a tremendous marketing plan, and realizes great success in their fundraising efforts. In good faith and in keeping with the spirit of this new program, they have the money deposited at the wing level, thinking all along it is earmarked for them. In the meantime, Y Wing (which is "tracking" this money) has some financial shortfalls at their level, and/or another one of their squadrons is having some tough times.

Now that the wing is "tracking" the money (i.e. in control of it), what is to PREVENT them from diverting the money X Sqdn raised for their initiatives to support other wing "priorities" (as determined by the wing)???

A centralized accounting system makes sense... one that guarantees visibility of all funds. A system that removes sqdn control of their checkbook does not, and is a big cause for concern.
Report to moderator   Logged
Sean M. Johnson
Lt Col, CAP
Chief of Staff
ND Wing CAP
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,662

« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2006, 04:21:20 PM »

I'm just wondering what will happen by the time this program gets around to my area. I wasn't impressed with how this program is being implemented to begin with, but now I'm being told that in GA at least there won't even be separate accounts, the wing is going to pool all of the money in one bank account and then track the squadrons balances separately in some type of accounting software.

One account (to rule them all) would be the optimum answer, but many states won't have that option if they willmaintain the unit's ability to make local deposits.

In ILWG, for example, there is no single bank that covers the whole state, so we've been told it will actually be 4-5.
Report to moderator   Logged


Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,662

« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2006, 04:23:43 PM »

Another wrinkle - INTEREST.

Why does Wing get to keep my interest?  Many units, including mine, have large sums of money in CDs - we've been told no one will be forced to close a CD early, but once they mature, the money goes to Wing.

How, on earth, would you ever figure out how to divide the interest?  And don't say "equally" among units - I cycle about $20k a year, while some don't even have an FM.
Report to moderator   Logged


arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,350

« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2006, 04:49:37 PM »

In CO, the plan is to divide it proportionally, based on how much money each unit has in the account. How everyone else does/will do it is a good question.

Also, every unit has web access to their account to get statements whenever they want.
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Send this topic Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Georgia Wing Banking
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.121 seconds with 26 queries.