CAP Talk

I often hear former Cadets discuss with nostalgia their time in the Cadet Program, often stating that they wish they could be a Cadet again. Likewise, there are others who are very happy being Senior Members. Out of curiosity, I figured I'd post this question to the CAPTalk membership.

If you could be a Cadet again, would you?

Not sure of the wording of the poll.  I don't want tp give up being a senior member now, but if I could be a cadet again, I would definately take more advantage of cadet opportunities.  We didn't have all of the summer encampment opportunities WIWAC, however, we got better support from the Air Force, flights on AF planes, and encampments on Air Bases.  Being more Air Bases then, a lot of CAP squadrons were on Air Bases and they liked us.

Quote from: capchiro on September 12, 2009, 06:39:39 PM
Not sure of the wording of the poll.  I don't want tp give up being a senior member now, but if I could be a cadet again, I would definately take more advantage of cadet opportunities.  We didn't have all of the summer encampment opportunities WIWAC, however, we got better support from the Air Force, flights on AF planes, and encampments on Air Bases.  Being more Air Bases then, a lot of CAP squadrons were on Air Bases and they liked us.

You bring up an interesting point. The Cadet Program (and CAP in general) is not the same as it was in yesteryear (which is good or bad, depending on personal opinion) and so this may have an impact on whether some would want to be a Cadet again.

There is no way on this green Earth I would ever want to be a teenager again!

A 45 year old cadet would just be silly!

I liked being an AFJROTC and AFROTC cadet....heck I liked being an AD USAF basic trainee......but we move forward not back.

yep, only look forward....
I forgot, what were we talking about?  ;D

The squad I tried as a cadet was horrible.  It was poorly run and I eventually left and quit the CAP with no advancement at all.  I tried another after I turned 18 and moved to another state.  It was a better squad, but was not interested in new members.  Now I joined a completely different one with my kid, and this squad is somewhere between the two I already experienced. 

I agree with flyerthom - not again.  Been there - done that.............

Once was great, and enough  :D

Heres my brief story....

I joined CAP at the age of 13 in 2002. I'm down to my last month as a cadet. It's been some good times, and I defiantly don't regret it. In a way I wish I could stay a cadet forever, but at the same time, it's time to move on and let someone else take my place. It's time for me to start giving back to the program.

The only part of my teen years that I want to relive is my time in Army Basic. ;D

Quote from: tarheel gumby on September 13, 2009, 03:28:24 AM
The only part of my teen years that I want to relive is my time in Army Basic. ;D

Amen....

While there are a few moments from my teen years I would relive if I could (I missed a major opportunity because at the time I didn't know about the New Years eve kissing custom :(  ), I don't think it would be my time as a cadet. 

I didn't know about the cadet program till I was an adult and my son brought the information home from school. I would of loved to of been a cadet, but am happy to be a senior member now.

I enjoyed my time as a cadet greatly.  My only regret was not having enough time to attempt the Spaatz one more time.  As much as I enjoyed it, I enjoy being a SM even more and would never go back.

Wish I found out about CAP earlier so I could have been a cadet longer and done more... but things seem like they have changed somewhat since even my Cadet Daze that it wouldn't be the same today even in the same squadron.

I really enjoyed being a cadet, and regret that I didn't start sooner (I was past 16...still got an Earhart before going over to the Dark Side just before turning 20!)...but the possibilities for contributing as a senior are much more fulfilling to me -- mentoring, serving as an IC, and so forth.

I do miss my cadet days but I dont know if I'd want to be a cadet in this day and age

I'd rather go back to Viet nam, than relive high school. 

If I could be a cadet (or for that matter, a teenager) again, and know everything I know now, it would be cool. 

To be a cadet now?  No way!  We had lots more fun back in the 1960's than cadets do now.

I enjoyed my time as a cadet in the late 80s, so yeah, it may be neat to go back.  As a senior in the 90s working closely with cadets, I think it would have been cool to be a cadet then, too.

To be a cadet these days?  No way.  Pressures of testing, online courses, tons of worthless boxes to check and a homeland security mission that seems to get more attention than cadet involvement in ES?  You can keep it.

I was a cadet many years ago, when the minimum age was 15. If I was 16, much less 17 or 18, I wouldn't want to be in an organization with 13 year olds. There's simply too much difference in age for me to participate in that kind of a program.

I know that others will write about "leadership opportunities", but when I was 16 I didn't want to lead 13 year olds.

In my opinion, much of the problems in the current Cadet program can be traced to the fact that it attempts to appeal to too broad an age range. Teenagers are very conscious of gradations of age and mixing 13 year olds with 18 year olds repulses most of the latter. And rightly so.

Quote from: dogboy on September 15, 2009, 12:26:39 AM
I was a cadet many years ago, when the minimum age was 15. If I was 16, much less 17 or 18, I wouldn't want to be in an organization with 13 year olds. There's simply too much difference in age for me to participate in that kind of a program.

I know that others will write about "leadership opportunities", but when I was 16 I didn't want to lead 13 year olds.

In my opinion, much of the problems in the current Cadet program can be traced to the fact that it attempts to appeal to too broad an age range. Teenagers are very conscious of gradations of age and mixing 13 year olds with 18 year olds repulses most of the latter. And rightly so.

That might be true for cadets that join when they are older but not for cadets who have joined at 12, 13, 14, and probably 15. Personally I'm look forward to becoming a senior member soon, but I will also miss being a cadet.

What's done is done.  My time as a cadet?  Long since over with.  And there's no way I'd want to be a teenager again!

I would want to be a Cadet again, but only if we could revert to late 1990s regs.  CAP has become too much like the Boy Scouts.  It was a LOT better when I joined.  I would have never thought of going inactive back then, but there are so many issues in my squadron right now, I can't see myself going to meetings.

Marc

I'm probably the only person NOT qualified to answer this, since I was a cadet only a few months ago, and haven't been able to keep up much with CAP since going to the dark side.

For me, though, it wouldn't be a question of whether or not I should go back to being a cadet. Rather, it's a question of WHERE I'd like to go back in my cadet career. I was made flight sergeant of a rather large squadron at C/SrA, and I made officer fairly quickly. The VAST bulk of my cadet career was as a staff member, both C/NCO and C/Officer, and most of my time from C/Maj-C/Col was spent as a cadet who mainly hung around and performed senior-member type duties.

So, looked at in that light, while I enjoyed working as a commander-type cadet for as long as I did, I would like to have the opportunity to go back and actually be a basic cadet for longer than four months or however long I was actually at the bottom of the rung.

But I suppose I could just sign up for the military and end up in the same position. :)

I had no idea of CAP when I was a kid.  I was a Boy Scout, and back then they were phasing out the Air Explorers, so being a CAP Cadet would likely have been a big thing for me, given that I used to sit at my uncle's knee and listen to his Air Force stories (he joined right after the AF became an independent service).

I spent 8 years as a cadet, and that was plenty.  In those 8 years, I achieved more than I ever imagined I would: Wing CAC Chair, Encampment C/CC, NCC, COS, IACE, ATCFC x2, solo scholarship, Wing Cadet of the Year--and just two weeks before I turned 21, earned my Spaatz. Most importantly, I earned the respect of my peers. 

So no regrets here, no need to relive the past either.

Quote from: Mustang on September 19, 2009, 05:27:14 AM
and just two weeks before I turned 21, earned my Spaatz.

You didn't get to play around with your triple diamonds at all? Yuck. :-\

This is a VERY tough question for me to answer.

I have a certain amount of success as a cadet, that ended abruptly in what I though was a wise move for my future in this career.

Had I known what I know now I would not have transitioned at 18 and would have had a real run at all the things that make a cadet career "notable"

HOWEVER, in just the 5 short years since my transititon I have checked off more goals than I knew I had and I can only go up from here.

Do I wish I could be a cadet again?  No.  Do I wish I would have timed out naturally instead of choosing to do so? Yes.

Hmm, to be a cadet again, knowing what I know now... :o

I was only registered as a cadet for one year beginning in 8th grade, but joined MCJROTC in high school. I'm very glad I was in JROTC and not CAP at that time because our local squadron was small and not very active.

I wouldn't want to be a teenager again for all the gold in Fort Knox.  It was bad enough being a teen in the 1970's, what I see my child facing today is 100 times worse.  No thanks.

I was a cadet for 5 years.  I earned the Eaker Award, was an Encampment Cadet Commander, Cadet Commander of my unit, Wing CAC Chairman, COS Grad, Wing Drill Team Champion, etc, etc.  Overall, a great Cadet "career."

I made many friends and had even more great experiences.  I also had my share of faults and stupid things I did. Which, to this day I regret many of them.

As a cadet I always used to look at those "old fogies" wearing their smurf suits and think, "I never want to be a senior, they don't have any fun and they don't even wear their uniforms correctly.  We're the ones putting in all the effort..."

When I got married, I could no longer be a cadet, so I had about a 6 month period without CAP.  There was something missing, those friendships, those experiences, those good things in my life.  So, my wife (a former Mitchell Cadet) and I decided to become active again - as senior members.

Here I am, 7 more years down the road. Every week when I put on my uniform, get to pin some new stripes on a cadet's collar or see them accomplish something, it only reaffirms that I do not want to be a cadet again.

Not only is being a senior a lot more rewarding, but we have way more fun.

As a cadet I had an abundance of fun. I was very involved in ES. To the point where it followed me in my future.  It all started with getting my Red Cross first aid cert card and getting to go on ground FTXs. Then chasing down ELTs in hangers that had gone off. Not to mention going to PJOC, hawk mountain ,encampment, blue beret, etc... I can only hope it was as fun as when I was there. When I return from Iraq I will definatly rejoin to be apart of the cadet program.

My only regret is that I was too eager and took the Spaatz exam at age 15. In hindsight, I can say no kid that age is ready for that.

But I wouldn't want to be cadet in the modern environment.

The program has become more mamby-pamby in some ways, and more complicated (even inaccessible) in others. We didn't have CPPT in the 1980s and we all turned out just fine. CPPT has put such a chill factor on cadet discipline that it seems practically nonexistent. Not that I think every cadet meeting should be "Full Metal Jacket," but it shouldn't feel like a Girl Scout get-together, either. (I think push-ups are a good thing. Especially when so many new cadets have no idea what physical fitness is, unless you count the tendinitis they get from Nintendo.  >:D )

Our supply situation was better in the 1980s and we had better Air Force support. We also didn't seem to have all the politics and legal/safety paranoia, both of which are self-destructive. 

This turned into a little rant, didn't it? Wow....

But yes, I'd rather be an adult (don't call me a "senior") member, and do what we do, and do it well.

There is no problem with push-ups or any other physical activity, its called corrective training. And it works wonders or personal disipline and physical fitness.

Quote from: BLACKSHARK on September 22, 2009, 09:09:48 PM
There is no problem with push-ups or any other physical activity, its called corrective training. And it works wonders or personal disipline and physical fitness.

I agree, but regs state that's hazing so you'd better not do it.

I would contend there are ways to use physical discipline without hazing, but it requires common sense. Since there's not enough common sense to go around, regulation has stepped in. I've boldfaced the over-reactive language:

Quote from: CAPR 52-10, section 1, paragraph C on September 22, 2009, 09:56:24 PM
c. Hazing.  Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby someone causes another to suffer or to be exposed to any activity that is cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, or harmful.  Actual or implied consent to acts of hazing does not eliminate the culpability of the perpetrator. Examples of hazing include using exercise as punishment or assigning remedial training that does not fit the deficiency (such as making a cadet run laps for having poorly shined shoes). Hazing, as defined in this policy, is considered a form of physical abuse and the reporting procedures for physical abuse must be followed.

The use of exercise as punishment is not cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, nor harmful. But that's when good judgment is used in implementing exercise. Making a 13-year-old cadet airman run 10 laps around a building carrying a large fire extinguisher is abusive and harmful (and yes, I actually saw it, back in the 1980s). Dropping an entire flight for 10 pushups because they were 10 minutes late to the drill pad, thanks to screwing around instead of following orders, is not necessarily hazing, by the definition put forth in the first sentence of paragraph 1c.

Still, we can't do it at all because the regs say so. (Unless there's an ICL that we all missed.... ha!) If the language allowed commanders to use good judgment in administering discipline as individual situations dictate, this wouldn't be an issue, and we wouldn't feel like the bat was taken out of our hands. What probably happened is a few people spoiled it for everyone, and instead of disciplining the few, everyone got hit with it.  ::)

Also, a side note. "Making a cadet run laps for having poorly shined shoes"? You aren't supposed to run in blues. You wear combat boots with BDUs, a uniform you can do PT in.

Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on September 23, 2009, 03:41:32 AM
You aren't supposed to run in blues.

Must be why AFM 36-2203 uses someone in SERVICE DRESS to depict how to do double time... ;) I don't know how or why this gets perpetuated...there is nothing prohibiting you from running in blues.

Common sense would dictate to keep it to short distances, like "Oh crap, my flight is running late for the next class and if we double time for the next 100 yards, we'll make it on time."

Obviously not advocating running the CPFT in blues...

Ironically, I grew up in the same squadron that BLACKSHARK did above, just several years before him.  Don't know him, BTW.

Someone mentioned in one of their posts, an absence of regulations back in the day.  My "day" was in the latter part of the 80s.  Obvsiously the internet wasn't available, but neither were the regs.  I'm sure they  existed, but were kept at some crusty senioer member's house and collected dust.  The only type of book we had was Leadership and Aerospace.  If you didn't learn it there, you learned it from the senior cadets.  And if they said it, it was gospel.

There was a mile run and that was it.  CPFT did not take up an entire meeting or require you to come in on the weekend so as to save time during a regular meeting. 

In many cases, I'd say the CAP cadet program in my time was a survival of the fitest type situation.  Testing was once a month and most cadets didn't promote but maybe once or twice per year.  No kumbaya singing, warm fuzzy "squadron moms", DDR or taking years to get signed off to be a GTM.  You got your ROP, 1st Aid, GES, and participated in 2 practice exercises as a GTM-T. 

^^^^^

Ah yes the cadet program of the 1970's and 1980's

When CAP was real and really meant something and wasn't "sissified" by those suing legal types and safety averse regs and that when when did not go looking for DDR beer goggles. 

We did pushups just for giggles and most of never approached hazing issues....we got that when we enlisted

Yep, Stonewall,  no kumbaya and especially no boxes to check of on some lame SQTR form that somebody plagarized from the military as a "taskbook" and even less worries and LESS threads about people "pencilwhipping" training.  There were real no percieved (sp) delays in signoffs and surely NO waits for some clown to come on down from Wing to "observe training."  Squadrons just DID IT and DIDIED and moved on.

So the CAP cadet program of 20-30 years ago was more streamlined or was apparently so.,,,

Other CAPers here with 20 or less yrs IN and OUT of the organization or seniors that were never cadets will never understand the program of yore.......but there are plenty-o-CAPers here that will tell you that today's cadet program is the best thing.....sure it is... from these days one...nothing to compare it to ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: heliodoc on September 23, 2009, 12:45:55 PM
...and safety averse regs and that when when did not go looking for DDR beer goggles.

Are you typing with them on? 

Quoteand even less worries and LESS threads about people "pencilwhipping" training.

Because the internet didn't exist...and there wasn't any paper to pencil whip.

QuoteThere were real no percieved (sp) delays in signoffs and surely NO waits for some clown to come on down from Wing to "observe training."  Squadrons just DID IT and DIDIED and moved on.

Our unit does that now.  We had a harder time getting training done WIWAC 13 years ago...at least there is a standard set of skills listed for each training level. 

QuoteOther CAPers here with 20 or less yrs IN and OUT of the organization or seniors that were never cadets will never understand the program of yore.......but there are plenty-o-CAPers here that will tell you that today's cadet program is the best thing.....sure it is... from these days one...nothing to compare it to ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sounds like a "the older I get, the harder I was" scenario.  I talk to plenty of former cadets from that era who say nothing but bad things about it.  Lack of organization, no resources available, etc, etc.  Must be a difference in local units from the time, which is pretty much what you have today.  None of the issues you list even remotely occur in my unit.

Plus, I don't even know the words to kumbaya.  ;D

^^^

Why yes I was typing with my DDR beer googles on

The older I get, the harder it was scenario does not exist.  I went searching for activities such as PJOC and USAF Academy Survival Course and other course that did not resemble the Hawk Mountain mantra, although they thought theier feces did not stink back then...

You are talking to the few who thought it was bad.  BITD, we did community service projects and went on natural disasters just like today, but we were NOT looking for a pat on the back from the public and surely explaining ALOT better about CAP was about.

And there in lies the problem with CAP, everything is NOT consistent, is localized, and yet the same problems exist from 30 years ago. 

Careful jimmydeanno, next thing you know,  you'll have Eclipse Explaining to you "local perception is not National reality."   But  IN REALITY the same problems STILL exist in CAP.  CAP is not in every community and nor does it have the capacity to do so.  CAP folks STILL have to drive hundreds od miles for training and nowadays internet is supposed to replace that? 

Yep CAP has change.... Internet, risk averse people running the show, lack of real mentoring,

The same stuff still exists in CAP...only CAPers here think they have the MOST high speed units.  The reality is.... ALOT of CAP is still local and not every Sqdn has a sooperdooper cadet or senior program

I was never a cadet.  When I could have been the idea of the program was soured on me by a cadet at that time.  We were both in JROTC and he made some comments towards me while in our in uniforms that were very unprofessional.  At the time he was in his CAP and I in my JROTC. 

Posting from my Crackberry so I can't quote...

I try NOT to sound like "it was tougher BITD", so I apologize if that's how I came across.

I think it was easier to be a cadet BITD; you just showed up and did it.  We THOUGHT we were tough guys, but only in the sense that we had to be more creative and do things ourselves and we didn't have to worry about violating a policy that may or may not have existed.  We didn't know so it didn't matter to us.  We didn't know if we were in violation of the regs because no one knew the regs.  Made life a lot easier.  Now, regs are at your fingertips.  IMHO, this sucks the fun out of it.

Quote from: Stonewall on September 23, 2009, 12:30:23 PM
Ironically, I grew up in the same squadron that BLACKSHARK did above, just several years before him.  Don't know him, BTW.

Actually we met arround 99 or 01 time frame. If I am correct you brought a picture book of yall at camp blanding and hanging with some sf dudes. The memory is very clouded but I am sure we have met.