If you could be a Cadet again, would you?

[dogboy]

I was a cadet many years ago, when the minimum age was 15. If I was 16, much less 17 or 18, I wouldn't want to be in an organization with 13 year olds. There's simply too much difference in age for me to participate in that kind of a program.

I know that others will write about "leadership opportunities", but when I was 16 I didn't want to lead 13 year olds.

In my opinion, much of the problems in the current Cadet program can be traced to the fact that it attempts to appeal to too broad an age range. Teenagers are very conscious of gradations of age and mixing 13 year olds with 18 year olds repulses most of the latter. And rightly so.

[notaNCO forever]

I was a cadet many years ago, when the minimum age was 15. If I was 16, much less 17 or 18, I wouldn't want to be in an organization with 13 year olds. There's simply too much difference in age for me to participate in that kind of a program.

I know that others will write about "leadership opportunities", but when I was 16 I didn't want to lead 13 year olds.

In my opinion, much of the problems in the current Cadet program can be traced to the fact that it attempts to appeal to too broad an age range. Teenagers are very conscious of gradations of age and mixing 13 year olds with 18 year olds repulses most of the latter. And rightly so.

That might be true for cadets that join when they are older but not for cadets who have joined at 12, 13, 14, and probably 15. Personally I'm look forward to becoming a senior member soon, but I will also miss being a cadet.

[dwb]

What's done is done.  My time as a cadet?  Long since over with.  And there's no way I'd want to be a teenager again!

[Maverick925]

I would want to be a Cadet again, but only if we could revert to late 1990s regs.  CAP has become too much like the Boy Scouts.  It was a LOT better when I joined.  I would have never thought of going inactive back then, but there are so many issues in my squadron right now, I can't see myself going to meetings.

Marc

[Nathan]

I'm probably the only person NOT qualified to answer this, since I was a cadet only a few months ago, and haven't been able to keep up much with CAP since going to the dark side.

For me, though, it wouldn't be a question of whether or not I should go back to being a cadet. Rather, it's a question of WHERE I'd like to go back in my cadet career. I was made flight sergeant of a rather large squadron at C/SrA, and I made officer fairly quickly. The VAST bulk of my cadet career was as a staff member, both C/NCO and C/Officer, and most of my time from C/Maj-C/Col was spent as a cadet who mainly hung around and performed senior-member type duties.

So, looked at in that light, while I enjoyed working as a commander-type cadet for as long as I did, I would like to have the opportunity to go back and actually be a basic cadet for longer than four months or however long I was actually at the bottom of the rung.

But I suppose I could just sign up for the military and end up in the same position.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I had no idea of CAP when I was a kid.  I was a Boy Scout, and back then they were phasing out the Air Explorers, so being a CAP Cadet would likely have been a big thing for me, given that I used to sit at my uncle's knee and listen to his Air Force stories (he joined right after the AF became an independent service).

[Mustang]

I spent 8 years as a cadet, and that was plenty.  In those 8 years, I achieved more than I ever imagined I would: Wing CAC Chair, Encampment C/CC, NCC, COS, IACE, ATCFC x2, solo scholarship, Wing Cadet of the Year--and just two weeks before I turned 21, earned my Spaatz. Most importantly, I earned the respect of my peers. 

So no regrets here, no need to relive the past either.

[Nathan]

and just two weeks before I turned 21, earned my Spaatz.

You didn't get to play around with your triple diamonds at all? Yuck.

[IceNine]

This is a VERY tough question for me to answer.

I have a certain amount of success as a cadet, that ended abruptly in what I though was a wise move for my future in this career.

Had I known what I know now I would not have transitioned at 18 and would have had a real run at all the things that make a cadet career "notable"

HOWEVER, in just the 5 short years since my transititon I have checked off more goals than I knew I had and I can only go up from here.

Do I wish I could be a cadet again?  No.  Do I wish I would have timed out naturally instead of choosing to do so? Yes.

[Johnny Yuma]

Hmm, to be a cadet again, knowing what I know now...

[Dad2-4]

I was only registered as a cadet for one year beginning in 8th grade, but joined MCJROTC in high school. I'm very glad I was in JROTC and not CAP at that time because our local squadron was small and not very active.

[DogCollar]

I wouldn't want to be a teenager again for all the gold in Fort Knox.  It was bad enough being a teen in the 1970's, what I see my child facing today is 100 times worse.  No thanks.

[jimmydeanno]

I was a cadet for 5 years.  I earned the Eaker Award, was an Encampment Cadet Commander, Cadet Commander of my unit, Wing CAC Chairman, COS Grad, Wing Drill Team Champion, etc, etc.  Overall, a great Cadet "career."

I made many friends and had even more great experiences.  I also had my share of faults and stupid things I did. Which, to this day I regret many of them.

As a cadet I always used to look at those "old fogies" wearing their smurf suits and think, "I never want to be a senior, they don't have any fun and they don't even wear their uniforms correctly.  We're the ones putting in all the effort..."

When I got married, I could no longer be a cadet, so I had about a 6 month period without CAP.  There was something missing, those friendships, those experiences, those good things in my life.  So, my wife (a former Mitchell Cadet) and I decided to become active again - as senior members.

Here I am, 7 more years down the road. Every week when I put on my uniform, get to pin some new stripes on a cadet's collar or see them accomplish something, it only reaffirms that I do not want to be a cadet again.

Not only is being a senior a lot more rewarding, but we have way more fun.

[BLACKSHARK]

As a cadet I had an abundance of fun. I was very involved in ES. To the point where it followed me in my future.  It all started with getting my Red Cross first aid cert card and getting to go on ground FTXs. Then chasing down ELTs in hangers that had gone off. Not to mention going to PJOC, hawk mountain ,encampment, blue beret, etc... I can only hope it was as fun as when I was there. When I return from Iraq I will definatly rejoin to be apart of the cadet program.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

My only regret is that I was too eager and took the Spaatz exam at age 15. In hindsight, I can say no kid that age is ready for that.

But I wouldn't want to be cadet in the modern environment.

The program has become more mamby-pamby in some ways, and more complicated (even inaccessible) in others. We didn't have CPPT in the 1980s and we all turned out just fine. CPPT has put such a chill factor on cadet discipline that it seems practically nonexistent. Not that I think every cadet meeting should be "Full Metal Jacket," but it shouldn't feel like a Girl Scout get-together, either. (I think push-ups are a good thing. Especially when so many new cadets have no idea what physical fitness is, unless you count the tendinitis they get from Nintendo.  )

Our supply situation was better in the 1980s and we had better Air Force support. We also didn't seem to have all the politics and legal/safety paranoia, both of which are self-destructive. 

This turned into a little rant, didn't it? Wow....

But yes, I'd rather be an adult (don't call me a "senior") member, and do what we do, and do it well.

[BLACKSHARK]

There is no problem with push-ups or any other physical activity, its called corrective training. And it works wonders or personal disipline and physical fitness.

[davidsinn]

There is no problem with push-ups or any other physical activity, its called corrective training. And it works wonders or personal disipline and physical fitness.

I agree, but regs state that's hazing so you'd better not do it.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I would contend there are ways to use physical discipline without hazing, but it requires common sense. Since there's not enough common sense to go around, regulation has stepped in. I've boldfaced the over-reactive language:

c. Hazing.  Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby someone causes another to suffer or to be exposed to any activity that is cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, or harmful.  Actual or implied consent to acts of hazing does not eliminate the culpability of the perpetrator. Examples of hazing include using exercise as punishment or assigning remedial training that does not fit the deficiency (such as making a cadet run laps for having poorly shined shoes). Hazing, as defined in this policy, is considered a form of physical abuse and the reporting procedures for physical abuse must be followed.

The use of exercise as punishment is not cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, nor harmful. But that's when good judgment is used in implementing exercise. Making a 13-year-old cadet airman run 10 laps around a building carrying a large fire extinguisher is abusive and harmful (and yes, I actually saw it, back in the 1980s). Dropping an entire flight for 10 pushups because they were 10 minutes late to the drill pad, thanks to screwing around instead of following orders, is not necessarily hazing, by the definition put forth in the first sentence of paragraph 1c.

Still, we can't do it at all because the regs say so. (Unless there's an ICL that we all missed.... ha!) If the language allowed commanders to use good judgment in administering discipline as individual situations dictate, this wouldn't be an issue, and we wouldn't feel like the bat was taken out of our hands. What probably happened is a few people spoiled it for everyone, and instead of disciplining the few, everyone got hit with it. 

Also, a side note. "Making a cadet run laps for having poorly shined shoes"? You aren't supposed to run in blues. You wear combat boots with BDUs, a uniform you can do PT in.

[jimmydeanno]

You aren't supposed to run in blues.

Must be why AFM 36-2203 uses someone in SERVICE DRESS to depict how to do double time... I don't know how or why this gets perpetuated...there is nothing prohibiting you from running in blues.

Common sense would dictate to keep it to short distances, like "Oh crap, my flight is running late for the next class and if we double time for the next 100 yards, we'll make it on time."

Obviously not advocating running the CPFT in blues...

[Stonewall]

Ironically, I grew up in the same squadron that BLACKSHARK did above, just several years before him.  Don't know him, BTW.

Someone mentioned in one of their posts, an absence of regulations back in the day.  My "day" was in the latter part of the 80s.  Obvsiously the internet wasn't available, but neither were the regs.  I'm sure they  existed, but were kept at some crusty senioer member's house and collected dust.  The only type of book we had was Leadership and Aerospace.  If you didn't learn it there, you learned it from the senior cadets.  And if they said it, it was gospel.

There was a mile run and that was it.  CPFT did not take up an entire meeting or require you to come in on the weekend so as to save time during a regular meeting. 

In many cases, I'd say the CAP cadet program in my time was a survival of the fitest type situation.  Testing was once a month and most cadets didn't promote but maybe once or twice per year.  No kumbaya singing, warm fuzzy "squadron moms", DDR or taking years to get signed off to be a GTM.  You got your ROP, 1st Aid, GES, and participated in 2 practice exercises as a GTM-T.