Pilot Screening Including Driver's License Checks?

[RADIOMAN015]

Interstingly, I noted that a few non profit flying clubs are now requiring club applicants to provide a copy of their motor vehicle driving record.

Not sure why they are requiring this, but I would imagine that their insurance carrier might be requiring this.

Could we in CAP learn from this and now require that we review motor vehicle driver's license driving record?
RM     

[Flying Pig]

Its probably not for anything official in a legal sense.  Probably just a way to confirm identity since a pilots license (for some reason) doesnt have a photo.  Especially with ID theft going on, not a bad idea I guess.

[Spike]

Driving records can be accessed to see if this guy is a bad driver.  If you can't drive a car without killing a few civilians, really don't want you flying. 

[Mustang]

Just what CAP needs, more red tape. 

[SilverEagle2]

Don't most Wings requires a Drivers Record before issuing a CAP Drivers License?

[Thom]

Don't most Wings requires a Drivers Record before issuing a CAP Drivers License?

Yes, but I don't know of any that require you to get a CAP Driver's License in order to get a Form 5/91.  Most only require it if you want to drive a CAP Van/Minivan.

As to the original post in this thread, WHY?  What is the value proposition to CAP of imposing additional driver's license/driving record checks?

For any additional red tape such as this, we need to identify a Value to the organization that outpaces the Costs to the organization to implement it.

Thom

[Eclipse]

As to the original post in this thread, WHY?  What is the value proposition to CAP of imposing additional driver's license/driving record checks?

Because people drive a lot more than they fly, and a poor driving record is generally an indicator of lack of attention / regard for detail and safety.

[Pylon]

For what it's worth, positively verifying the identity of membership applicants was an agenda item at the November 2009 NB (Item 7 or 9, if I recall correctly).  It was suggested that unit's take a look at the driver's licenses or other forms of government identification from applicants for membership before signing off on the app.  After all, anybody can take a Form 12 and fingerprint card home, fill it out with someone else's info and get anybody to stick their prints on that card, and bring it back to the unit.   The agenda item failed.   More time was spent discussing uniforms at that NB than this agenda item.

However, this doesn't mean that as a matter of course, your unit's membership committee can't verify the identity of applicants with a quick wallet check.  At my squadron, the application checklist asks members for a copy of their driver's license and driving record and includes a wing vehicle operator permit request form, along with the F12, F60, fingerprint card, etc.   (We would rather just ask every member to become a van driver up front;  if everyone is a van driver, you'll never be stuck without one.)   While we're going over a  new member's application, collecting paperwork, getting things signed, etc., nobody has ever thought it odd that we ask to see their driver's license/ID card to make a copy.

If National isn't going to mandate it, it doesn't mean the rest of us can't do due diligence at the squadron level.   

[Eclipse]

Wow, it never occurred to me not to ask for ID...

[SarDragon]

After all, anybody can take a Form 12 and fingerprint card home, fill it out with someone else's info and get anybody to stick their prints on that card, and bring it back to the unit.

Around here, the fingerprint card NEVER leaves unit control until it goes in the mail. Problem solved.

[Eclipse]

After all, anybody can take a Form 12 and fingerprint card home, fill it out with someone else's info and get anybody to stick their prints on that card, and bring it back to the unit.

Around here, the fingerprint card NEVER leaves unit control until it goes in the mail. Problem solved.

Not a bad idea - anyone short of Ethan Hunt is going to get screened.

[a2capt]

...I've had to deal with applicants (not to CAP) trying to conceal DUIs from their application under the guise of the FAA did nothing about it (they may not do anything about the first one), and since they did nothing about it, it was felt it need not be reported to the flight related entity.

.. a DMW print out .. shows all.

[Fubar]

.. a DMW print out .. shows all.

A III query really shows all. Aren't those being done as part of the background check?

[EMT-83]

Actually, a III query is not going to show MV history.

[Thom]

As to the original post in this thread, WHY?  What is the value proposition to CAP of imposing additional driver's license/driving record checks?

Because people drive a lot more than they fly, and a poor driving record is generally an indicator of lack of attention / regard for detail and safety.

That's not a value proposition, it's a theory.  (Quite likely correct, but still not a value prop.)

In order to make it actionable you need numbers to show the value to the organization, e.g.:

Initial DMV screenings of new pilot rated members will cost ~$50,000 per year, and statistically, if we reject any Form 5, or even overall membership, applications from those with more than 2 moving violations in the past year or any DUIs/DWIs, then the organization will save ~$110,000 in aircraft damage.

Unfortunately, quite often the 'apparently obvious' savings of such measures are not found when implemented.

As an example, the automobile accident rates were supposed to fall when 'hands-free' mobile phone rules took effect in many states, but accident rates haven't fallen at all, even where compliance with the 'distraction reducing' phone limitations are very high.

There are numerous other examples of either unintended consequences, or lack of results despite a great deal of money being spent.

You need at least some statistical basis, as well as an idea of the overall costs versus the overall savings, before we can really decide if it is worthwhile for the organization to pursue.

Also, to be truly meaningful, the DMV checks would need to be repeated on a regular basis.  Whether that was every 5 years, or even annually, it would certainly become a massive hassle.  We don't even do regular rechecks for the FBI background checks, which are arguably more important.

Thom

[a2capt]

.. a DMW print out .. shows all.

A III query really shows all. Aren't those being done as part of the background check?

As it's been noted, it does not show MV history, and the original thread/comment was related towards non-CAP entities asking for the printout.

Basically, a small percentage of people lie on those flying club forms. There's really no way to follow up as your typical non-profit club venture is not setup cost structure wise to be doing these kinds of checks.

So, more and more are resorting to asking for the DMV printout.