Anyone heard anything about this?

[Major Carrales]

And then what, you rasie the money for new equipment that become "corporate property" and sent to other..."better"...units?  I once asked for some UDF equipment to assist in the vast coverage area we operate in...I was told it was $700 or so and that I would have to raise the money.  We isntead use personal hand held scanners and self developed techniques for Ground UDF.

Keep in mind that there is a limited amount of equipment like that available. As DC, I want to have a spare DF unit available as a loaner. To meet the needs of my wing, I will be giving it up to a unit. Once it is gone, any other units wanting one will need to fund it themselves. Not ideal, but that's the hand we are dealt.

If your wing didn't have one to issue, you won't get one. And, as you were told, you'll have to fund it yourselves. I have a few units that have funded their own DF equipment (some have multiple DF units). As a matter of principle, I won't pull unit funded equipment unless the unit folds or I get orders from the wing CC to do so. Most DCs follow the same principle. Yes, we have the RIGHT to do so - after all, it is CAP owned equipment - but it's not the RIGHT thing to do.

In my recent forray into the scouts, via the crew...its seems they CAP is curtailed in local fund raising in comparasion.  And, while I will resist falling into unfair comparasions (which I often rail against) it just seems that they have much more fundraising opportunity as the Scouts than we do as CAP.  Likely do to having a paid staff office in every council (which I would not support for CAP).

We have 14 or 15 mandates or missions, why should we have to fund raise to support ourselves, we are already overtasked and under funded. What we got to send Cadets and Seniors out to raise funds too? Nope, not what we should have to do.

We shouldn't have to...but then things have to be done...they have to be done.

[tdepp]

We have 14 or 15 mandates or missions, why should we have to fund raise to support ourselves, we are already overtasked and under funded. What we got to send Cadets and Seniors out to raise funds too? Nope, not what we should have to do.

Back in 1941 and 1942, CAP pilots and crew used their own planes and their own money to fuel and fix them.  As I understand our history, many were not paid for months and months because money was short and there was no infrastructure to pay them back for some time.  But that did not stop our forefathers and foremothers from performing their missions.

So little is asked of us in comparison.  We have relatively stable national funding, state funding, corporate missions, member fees and dues, and donations to fund us.  Like any other 501(c), fundraising from all sources is always an ongoing challenge. 

To be blunt, we can [censored] about not having enough money or we can figure out ways to get the resources we need.  Most of us aren't going to be going to Congress to lobby.  But we know the businesses and organizations in our communities and we can ask them for financial and inkind help. 

Again, God and Hap Arnold help those who help themselves.  My politics are probably much farther to the left than most of the folks in CAP (and on this board) yet I understand the need to be entrepreneurial to get the resources my squadron and wing needs. 

I understand that some of the smaller squadrons in smaller communities may well struggle for resources. And I have no problem if they need more direct support from state or national government to help them do their missions.  But many of our squadrons have resources at their disposal.  All it takes is to ask.

For example, we have talked to Sam's Club and Staples and they provide us with inkind donations of office and paper products.  It's not a huge amount of money but it keeps us in copier paper and cleaning supplies.  We've had fundraisers at businesses that have helped us buy equipment.  We have applied for grants from Walmart and our local mall and received them.  Our members apply through their employers like Citi for grants based on their volunteer efforts and we get them.  We get stipends to help the city with safety and parking at big events.  We got two outdoor stores to donate SAR equipment.  I could go on and on.  This funds everything from pizza parties to our own training exercises to helping defray cadet expenses at encampment.

Put your heads together, come up with a plan, and then hit the streets. 

I've yet to be in any volunteer organization that thought it had enough money.  And most have had far fewer resources than us.  It's not like the my Lions Club has a fleet of Cessna 182s paid for by Uncle Sugar.

[Spike]

^ The biggest resources that most Wings do not take advantage of are the DLA (DRMO) and the CAP-RAP structure.  Put YOUR CAP-RAP Officers and NCO's to WORK.  They are there to assist CAP.  Let them make the coordination and arrangements for Air Force or Military support.  Ge them to sign a Van out of GSA and drive you around.  Tap into the resources that they can tap into!!!

[Earhart1971]

I think some of you are missing the point.

If we do things like we always have, membership wallets finance of CAP, and local units raising funds, then we will stay where we are, 100% memberhip churn every 4 years.

I am not talking about making money through $300 Car Washes and going to DMRO to pick up surplus for your local CAP Unit.

Billions in waste in our government

ACORN was funded with $300 Millon per year from Congress. That funding was finally stopped.  Other brand new programs will be funded that are less productive than CAP, why? Because, they ask for the funding, we do not.

I am not saying this will be easy.  It will take a different viewpoint in our Leadership.

[Strick]

My uncle-in law knew a guy who had a third cousin who talked to a guy who knew a girl who dated  a Generals Son's friend who went to college with a dude who said the same thing .  I wonder if this same guy knows the guy you know at the Pentagon?  What asmall world............

[tdepp]

Billions in waste in our government

I am not saying this will be easy.  It will take a different viewpoint in our Leadership.

Earhart (nice to know you're no longer missing!  )

While we are "Civil" (and I stress this in 35.7% of my posts), we are already a part of the one the biggest expenditures of our federal government--national defense via the USAF.  And which federal programs have suddenly gotten flush even under Obama and the Democratic Congress?  Who are these groups that are taking all of "our" money?

Should we try to increase our federal appropriations?  Absolutely.  But in the meantime, we also have considerable resources at hand.  What else do you think we need?  We already have the largest fleet of Cessna 172s and 182s in the world.  We have God only knows how many vans.  My wing just got a whole bunch of new radio gear.

My wing has now flown multiple daily flood recon and photo sorties (and transport missions) for the State of South Dakota for the last ten days.  We've had everything we've needed to do the job in terms of planes, fuel, photography equipment, computers, and what not.  Our biggest single limiting resource has been having enough trained members to help spread out the work load.  (BTW, we've 100% covered every sortie during this time with a wing of only 350 members, including cadets.)   I'm dead tired from taking off my day off and a day of work to help aircrew sorties.  Everyone else involved is also dead tired.  But that isn't a funding problem, that is a recruiting and telling our story problem.  So, should the CAP spend some of this imaginary new money on fancy TV commercials, billboards, newspaper ads, and the like?  I'd suggest that might be a better use of new additional money than anything else so we can bring more people into the organization.

But money didn't get this sorties planned and flown.  Dedicated people did who wanted to make a difference to their fellow South Dakotans.  (And our brothers and sisters in Minnesota and North Dakota are also doing the same thing.)  Even as a liberal Democrat, I know that money doesn't solve every problem.  It helps, surely, but it can't solve every problem.

During WWII, our members gladly donated their time, talents, money, and even lives in defense of our nation (I mention this in about 17.9% of my posts).  They went out looking for German U-Boats because it had to be done.  They didn't sit around and wait for Uncle Sugar.  (And obviously, Uncle Sugar did provide support.)  They figured out a way to get the job done.  And while our current  threats may not be quite as immediate or exciting, their gumption and grit should be a lesson to us.

In the meantime, while our tassel-loafer wearing lobbyists and star bedecked generals ply the halls of Congress on our behalf, think about what you can do to increase your squadron's resources and reach.  God, Hap Arnold, Mary Feik, Fiorello LaGuardia, Eric Boe, and John Curry help those who help themselves (I mention this in about 9.6% of my posts).

[Earhart1971]

TDepp, what you discribe is the bare bones hand to mouth of CAP. It  is our history.

It cannot continue.

Why? We burn out our membership. The Baby Boomers are running out of steam. There are better financed Organizations that, depend less on membership wallets.

If the Air Force is trying to decrease our budget, that will not help either.

I could be wrong, but if we perform all our missions on a "tip"  of less than 50 Million, for a National Program that is just about all we can do. 

[tdepp]

TDepp, what you discribe is the bare bones hand to mouth of CAP. It  is our history.

It cannot continue.

Why? We burn out our membership. The Baby Boomers are running out of steam. There are better financed Organizations that, depend less on membership wallets.

If the Air Force is trying to decrease our budget, that will not help either.

I could be wrong, but if we perform all our missions on a "tip"  of less than 50 Million, for a National Program that is just about all we can do.

Earhart: 
Then, let's bring in our Congressmen/women and U.S. Senators to our squadrons and tell them our story.  And how with even $X more money, how much more we could do because we are used to doing a lot with a little.  In the meantime, God, Hap Arnold, Amelia Earhart, Mary Fiek, Eric Boe, and John Curry help those who help themselves. 

[Earhart1971]

With positive action and thought something can be done!


We have a lot of Senators and Congressmen that are in CAP. It crosses the political spectrum.

Senator Harkin is in CAP and there are quite a few Congressmen I hear.

But let me ask this, we have some highly paid people at National, some EXECUTIVES pulling down big bucks, why cannot they take a plane trip up to Washington, and or make phone calls up to aids of Congressmen and establish communication.

What we need is National to have a CAP EXECUTIVE, go up and tell them what we do, and what we would like to do.

I think the money would flow for the Cadet Program IF we could sell the Senators and Congressmen on the MIDDLE SCHOOL PROGRAM. The Cadet Program can be sold as the saving force for youth.

I have a funding model for that, its called AFJROTC.

Also, I have a funding model for Emergency Services,

[tdepp]

With positive action and thought something can be done!


We have a lot of Senators and Congressmen that are in CAP. It crosses the political spectrum.

Senator Harkin is in CAP and there are quite a few Congressmen I hear.

But let me ask this, we have some highly paid people at National, some EXECUTIVES pulling down big bucks, why cannot they take a plane trip up to Washington, and or make phone calls up to aids of Congressmen and establish communication.

What we need is National to have a CAP EXECUTIVE, go up and tell them what we do, and what we would like to do.

I think the money would flow for the Cadet Program IF we could sell the Senators and Congressmen on the MIDDLE SCHOOL PROGRAM. The Cadet Program can be sold as the saving force for youth.

I have a funding model for that, its called AFJROTC.

Also, I have a funding model for Emergency Services,

Earhart:
All of these are excellent ideas.  Perhaps we need a separate organization that lobbies on behalf of CAP that is not CAP.  I think the USCGAux has a separate organization that is kind of a "friends" group to it that is not USCGAux.  I have some additional thoughts on this I'll share with you via PM if you're interested.  Let me know via PM and I'll detail them for you.  I've also been giving this some thought about a similar idea at the local level.

[RRLE]

The USCG Aux has the Coast Gaurd Auxiliary Association Inc. Since the Aux is a government agency, unlike CAP which is a private corportion, the CGAux cannot own 'stuff'. Some of the 'stuff' it cannot own are its own text books for publc education. So the CGAusAssInc owns the copyrights.

CGAuxAssInc also does fundraising but it does not lobby. The USCG is very tough about Auxies trying to go to any government agency w/o Big Brother's permission - which is almost never granted. Since the Commandant had to give his assent to the creation of CGAuxAssInc he could very easily remove that assent if it violated the no-lobbying rule.

The CGAuxAssInc has an Associate member program where an individual or corporation could join the Association w/o being an Auxie but it has never been very successful.

[tdepp]

The USCG Aux has the Coast Gaurd Auxiliary Association Inc. Since the Aux is a government agency, unlike CAP which is a private corportion, the CGAux cannot own 'stuff'. Some of the 'stuff' it cannot own are its own text books for publc education. So the CGAusAssInc owns the copyrights.

CGAuxAssInc also does fundraising but it does not lobby. The USCG is very tough about Auxies trying to go to any government agency w/o Big Brother's permission - which is almost never granted. Since the Commandant had to give his assent to the creation of CGAuxAssInc he could very easily remove that assent if it violated the no-lobbying rule.

The CGAuxAssInc has an Associate member program where an individual or corporation could join the Association w/o being an Auxie but it has never been very successful.

RR:
Thanks for the information and clarification re CGAuxAssoc, Inc.  I am also going through the USCGAux membership process and was reading through their +600 page Auxiliary manual and came across the provisions you mention. Thanks for the real world application of the rule, which appears to be "thou shalt not talk to politicians."

I did like their manual, long as it is, because most everything you'd want to know about USCGAux membership, training, uniforms, ranks, etc. was in one spot.  One of the things I find a bit maddening about CAP is trying to find information that is scattered across numerous regulations.  As a lawyer, I understand their organizational scheme: it makes sense and is organized like most state and federal codes and regulations.  But as just a plain member, it's not exactly one stop shopping to find an answer at times. 

Anyway, to get less off topic (this thread started out as the urban legend that we were being defunded  ), I think some sort of organization that can lobby on our behalf that is not reportable to the USAF or NHQ would be beneficial.  Many non-profits have three "heads"--their 501(c)(3) to educate and do their mission, a PAC to influence the political process (it has a different IRS designation as contributions are not tax deductible), and a foundation to help fund the 501(c)(3). And even 501(c)(3) have some ability to lobby, based on a percentage of their income. 

Being a part of the USAF, of course, complicates all this compared to most other purely 501(c)(3)s. 

[Earhart1971]

The USCG Aux has the Coast Gaurd Auxiliary Association Inc. Since the Aux is a government agency, unlike CAP which is a private corportion, the CGAux cannot own 'stuff'. Some of the 'stuff' it cannot own are its own text books for publc education. So the CGAusAssInc owns the copyrights.

CGAuxAssInc also does fundraising but it does not lobby. The USCG is very tough about Auxies trying to go to any government agency w/o Big Brother's permission - which is almost never granted. Since the Commandant had to give his assent to the creation of CGAuxAssInc he could very easily remove that assent if it violated the no-lobbying rule.

The CGAuxAssInc has an Associate member program where an individual or corporation could join the Association w/o being an Auxie but it has never been very successful.

RR:
Thanks for the information and clarification re CGAuxAssoc, Inc.  I am also going through the USCGAux membership process and was reading through their +600 page Auxiliary manual and came across the provisions you mention. Thanks for the real world application of the rule, which appears to be "thou shalt not talk to politicians."

I did like their manual, long as it is, because most everything you'd want to know about USCGAux membership, training, uniforms, ranks, etc. was in one spot.  One of the things I find a bit maddening about CAP is trying to find information that is scattered across numerous regulations.  As a lawyer, I understand their organizational scheme: it makes sense and is organized like most state and federal codes and regulations.  But as just a plain member, it's not exactly one stop shopping to find an answer at times. 

Anyway, to get less off topic (this thread started out as the urban legend that we were being defunded  ), I think some sort of organization that can lobby on our behalf that is not reportable to the USAF or NHQ would be beneficial.  Many non-profits have three "heads"--their 501(c)(3) to educate and do their mission, a PAC to influence the political process (it has a different IRS designation as contributions are not tax deductible), and a foundation to help fund the 501(c)(3). And even 501(c)(3) have some ability to lobby, based on a percentage of their income. 

Being a part of the USAF, of course, complicates all this compared to most other purely 501(c)(3)s.

Like the Air Force Auxillary Association?

[Earhart1971]

Or the Civil Air Patrol Association. The Air Force Association would never let us get away with the AFAA, LOL!