Anyone heard anything about this?

[Patriot Act]

On a recent trip to Virginia, I talked to a few friends who work at the Pentagon, one is Air Force, the other two civilian.  They suggested that after many years of lackluster performance and a number of black eyes to go along with it, USAF is actively looking to dismantle the organization through excessive regulation, then budget cuts before making their case to have it de-chartered.

I'm a long time member, but with all the talk of "looking for new customers" we've been hearing for so long, it seems to have the ring of truth.

Anyone?

[FW]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

[Spike]

 hahahhahhahhhahahha hahahahah ahhahhahahahaha

The unless this guys friends are the Secdef, Secaf and Commander CAP-USAF,  what?!?!

[arajca]

I've heard the same rumors for years. Given the amount of money the AF dropped, and is still spending, on CAP comms, it seems unlikely.

[Spike]

I guess I should have posted that CAP is a Federally (Congressional) created organization that is entirely separate and distinct from DOD and USAF direct controll.  We have a Board of Governors that run CAP, and are the folks who are supposed to report back to tax payers (through Congress).  So again, unless the "friends at the Pentagon" are the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff Air Force......

troll sighted, waiting approval for termination.   

[NIN]

I just ran out of fingers counting the number of times I've heard that same story posited since I first got on the CAP-Talk mailing list in 1993 or 1994.  I went to toes, and ran out of those, too.

*sigh*

Go stir the pot someplace else, buddy.

[raivo]

I heard Elvis is still alive and that aliens killed Kennedy.

Anyone?

[PHall]

That's almost a record. Registered and suspended from the site all within a 6 hour window. :clap:

[Earhart1971]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

I do think we have people (in our Leadership) that are satisfied with the "Status Quo".

That is a strategic error.

We need to use our resources in Congress - to get more money for CAP Programs that make sense, and help the country.

1. The Civil Air Patrol Middle School Program - should be funded just like AFJROTC
2. Better funding of ES and incentives to recruit ground teams and Pilots for needed missions

We should be treated and funded on the level of a National Guard, and at this moment we are about 100 Million under funded.

We have no leadership that can deal effectively with the Air force or Congress.

iIf you try and stay "status Quo" you go backwards in the scheme of things in this government and political climate.
.

[tdepp]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

I do think we have people (in our Leadership) that are satisfied with the "Status Quo".

That is a strategic error.

We need to use our resources in Congress - to get more money for CAP Programs that make sense, and help the country.

1. The Civil Air Patrol Middle School Program - should be funded just like AFJROTC
2. Better funding of ES and incentives to recruit ground teams and Pilots for needed missions

We should be treated and funded on the level of a National Guard, and at this moment we are about 100 Million under funded.

We have no leadership that can deal effectively with the Air force or Congress.

iIf you try and stay "status Quo" you go backwards in the scheme of things in this government and political climate.
.

And where would the money come from?  I know the federal government is spending like money crazy, but I'm not sure President Obama or the Republicans are looking for more ways to spend money on CAP now or in the near future because of deficit concerns.

As a former public TV employee who depended upon funding from state government to run his agency, while taxpayer money can provide some stability, it is also always subject to being reduced or ending if the political or economic winds change.  I for one like the addition of "corporate" missions and more non-federal government funding.  It diversifies our revenues and forces us to act in a more entrepreneurial manner.

[Major Carrales]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

I do think we have people (in our Leadership) that are satisfied with the "Status Quo".

That is a strategic error.

We need to use our resources in Congress - to get more money for CAP Programs that make sense, and help the country.

1. The Civil Air Patrol Middle School Program - should be funded just like AFJROTC
2. Better funding of ES and incentives to recruit ground teams and Pilots for needed missions

We should be treated and funded on the level of a National Guard, and at this moment we are about 100 Million under funded.

We have no leadership that can deal effectively with the Air force or Congress.

iIf you try and stay "status Quo" you go backwards in the scheme of things in this government and political climate.
.

And where would the money come from?  I know the federal government is spending like money crazy, but I'm not sure President Obama or the Republicans are looking for more ways to spend money on CAP now or in the near future because of deficit concerns.

As a former public TV employee who depended upon funding from state government to run his agency, while taxpayer money can provide some stability, it is also always subject to being reduced or ending if the political or economic winds change.  I for one like the addition of "corporate" missions and more non-federal government funding.  It diversifies our revenues and forces us to act in a more entrepreneurial manner.

The way fundraising is structured now in CAP, having self suficient units capable of real grassroots CAP operations is precarious....albiet not impossible.  I have been working the "Scout Side" with our Venture Crew and the Scouts raise a good deal of money that allows them to do at the "troop" level things that are sometime not brought to fruition at Squadron Level.

Donations are excellent, however, if you intend to run your operations in an organization where almost "zero" funding is coming from Wing and National to your unit...some of the constraints and policies of CAP-Financial are usually not conducive to generating revenue in a timely manner.  Squadron dues are precarious and, unless exhorbitant, will not fill that role.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Sweet Louise, whatta rumour.

The closest I've heard anything close to this is when John McCain tried to remove us from any AF connections back around 1994-95.

[tdepp]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

I do think we have people (in our Leadership) that are satisfied with the "Status Quo".

That is a strategic error.

We need to use our resources in Congress - to get more money for CAP Programs that make sense, and help the country.

1. The Civil Air Patrol Middle School Program - should be funded just like AFJROTC
2. Better funding of ES and incentives to recruit ground teams and Pilots for needed missions

We should be treated and funded on the level of a National Guard, and at this moment we are about 100 Million under funded.

We have no leadership that can deal effectively with the Air force or Congress.

iIf you try and stay "status Quo" you go backwards in the scheme of things in this government and political climate.
.

And where would the money come from?  I know the federal government is spending like money crazy, but I'm not sure President Obama or the Republicans are looking for more ways to spend money on CAP now or in the near future because of deficit concerns.

As a former public TV employee who depended upon funding from state government to run his agency, while taxpayer money can provide some stability, it is also always subject to being reduced or ending if the political or economic winds change.  I for one like the addition of "corporate" missions and more non-federal government funding.  It diversifies our revenues and forces us to act in a more entrepreneurial manner.

The way fundraising is structured now in CAP, having self suficient units capable of real grassroots CAP operations is precarious....albiet not impossible.  I have been working the "Scout Side" with our Venture Crew and the Scouts raise a good deal of money that allows them to do at the "troop" level things that are sometime not brought to fruition at Squadron Level.

Donations are excellent, however, if you intend to run your operations in an organization where almost "zero" funding is coming from Wing and National to your unit...some of the constraints and policies of CAP-Financial are usually not conducive to generating revenue in a timely manner.  Squadron dues are precarious and, unless exhorbitant, will not fill that role.

Major:
I'm not against better national funding.  But I'm also a realist.  CAP could do a better job teaching our squadrons how to fish instead of always asking for fish in terms of local fundraising.  I had some of our officers consult with a fundraising experts about how we could better go about raising money.  It is gets our members out in the community telling our story, which means better recruitment as well, and, I'd argue, local, state, and national leaders who learn about what we do and why we do it who then become more likely to want to continue funding us or increasing our funding.

God and Hap Arnold help those who help themselves. 

[Earhart1971]

You ask where the money would come from?

It  comes from appropriations from CONGRESS not the Air Force.

We have a Congressional Squadron, I don't know, what they do, but it has nothing to do with interaction with Congress.

You know why we don't get more money? 

1. Our Leaders don't have a vision for CAP other than "Status Quo"

2. They are not asking for the money to fund the vision because they don't have one

Job one establish a Vision for CAP

We try and maintain our status WE LOSE every year, because other programs are more aggressive in their seeking of funding.

[Ned]

You ask where the money would come from?

It  comes from appropriations from CONGRESS not the Air Force.

We have a Congressional Squadron, I don't know, what they do, but it has nothing to do with interaction with Congress.

You know why we don't get more money? 

1. Our Leaders don't have a vision for CAP other than "Status Quo"

2. They are not asking for the money to fund the vision because they don't have one

Job one establish a Vision for CAP

We try and maintain our status WE LOSE every year, because other programs are more aggressive in their seeking of funding.

Gosh, our silly leaders are at it again.  Shame on them for not funding every unit when all they had to do was "vision" and ask for more money from Congress.

That's such a simple foolproof plan.  How can they sleep at night?

All that time and effort at NHQ wasted when they could simply read CAPTalk and wander over to Capitol Hill with their hands out.

They could do that and still have time left to annoy and harrass local units with additional paperwork requirements and inspections.

Problem solved.

[Earhart1971]

Not talking about necessarilly funding down to the Unit, but making it easier to recruit and improve all the programs.

Right now we are looking at cuts each year or fight off cuts in the National CAP budget.

Is that where you want CAP to be, fighting every year for Status Quo?

[Major Carrales]

There is nothing origninating at the Pentagon I know of however, there is a paper which origninated at CAP-USAF which would like to see major changes made at NHQ of the kind some previously mentioned on CT but, nixed by the AF many years ago as too expensive and wasteful.  (how's that for a run on...)

I do think we have people (in our Leadership) that are satisfied with the "Status Quo".

That is a strategic error.

We need to use our resources in Congress - to get more money for CAP Programs that make sense, and help the country.

1. The Civil Air Patrol Middle School Program - should be funded just like AFJROTC
2. Better funding of ES and incentives to recruit ground teams and Pilots for needed missions

We should be treated and funded on the level of a National Guard, and at this moment we are about 100 Million under funded.

We have no leadership that can deal effectively with the Air force or Congress.

iIf you try and stay "status Quo" you go backwards in the scheme of things in this government and political climate.
.

And where would the money come from?  I know the federal government is spending like money crazy, but I'm not sure President Obama or the Republicans are looking for more ways to spend money on CAP now or in the near future because of deficit concerns.

As a former public TV employee who depended upon funding from state government to run his agency, while taxpayer money can provide some stability, it is also always subject to being reduced or ending if the political or economic winds change.  I for one like the addition of "corporate" missions and more non-federal government funding.  It diversifies our revenues and forces us to act in a more entrepreneurial manner.

The way fundraising is structured now in CAP, having self suficient units capable of real grassroots CAP operations is precarious....albiet not impossible.  I have been working the "Scout Side" with our Venture Crew and the Scouts raise a good deal of money that allows them to do at the "troop" level things that are sometime not brought to fruition at Squadron Level.

Donations are excellent, however, if you intend to run your operations in an organization where almost "zero" funding is coming from Wing and National to your unit...some of the constraints and policies of CAP-Financial are usually not conducive to generating revenue in a timely manner.  Squadron dues are precarious and, unless exhorbitant, will not fill that role.

Major:
I'm not against better national funding.  But I'm also a realist.  CAP could do a better job teaching our squadrons how to fish instead of always asking for fish in terms of local fundraising.  I had some of our officers consult with a fundraising experts about how we could better go about raising money.  It is gets our members out in the community telling our story, which means better recruitment as well, and, I'd argue, local, state, and national leaders who learn about what we do and why we do it who then become more likely to want to continue funding us or increasing our funding.

God and Hap Arnold help those who help themselves. 

And then what, you rasie the money for new equipment that become "corporate property" and sent to other..."better"...units?  I once asked for some UDF equipment to assist in the vast coverage area we operate in...I was told it was $700 or so and that I would have to raise the money.  We isntead use personal hand held scanners and self developed techniques for Ground UDF.

[arajca]

And then what, you rasie the money for new equipment that become "corporate property" and sent to other..."better"...units?  I once asked for some UDF equipment to assist in the vast coverage area we operate in...I was told it was $700 or so and that I would have to raise the money.  We isntead use personal hand held scanners and self developed techniques for Ground UDF.

Keep in mind that there is a limited amount of equipment like that available. As DC, I want to have a spare DF unit available as a loaner. To meet the needs of my wing, I will be giving it up to a unit. Once it is gone, any other units wanting one will need to fund it themselves. Not ideal, but that's the hand we are dealt.

If your wing didn't have one to issue, you won't get one. And, as you were told, you'll have to fund it yourselves. I have a few units that have funded their own DF equipment (some have multiple DF units). As a matter of principle, I won't pull unit funded equipment unless the unit folds or I get orders from the wing CC to do so. Most DCs follow the same principle. Yes, we have the RIGHT to do so - after all, it is CAP owned equipment - but it's not the RIGHT thing to do.

[Major Carrales]

And then what, you rasie the money for new equipment that become "corporate property" and sent to other..."better"...units?  I once asked for some UDF equipment to assist in the vast coverage area we operate in...I was told it was $700 or so and that I would have to raise the money.  We isntead use personal hand held scanners and self developed techniques for Ground UDF.

Keep in mind that there is a limited amount of equipment like that available. As DC, I want to have a spare DF unit available as a loaner. To meet the needs of my wing, I will be giving it up to a unit. Once it is gone, any other units wanting one will need to fund it themselves. Not ideal, but that's the hand we are dealt.

If your wing didn't have one to issue, you won't get one. And, as you were told, you'll have to fund it yourselves. I have a few units that have funded their own DF equipment (some have multiple DF units). As a matter of principle, I won't pull unit funded equipment unless the unit folds or I get orders from the wing CC to do so. Most DCs follow the same principle. Yes, we have the RIGHT to do so - after all, it is CAP owned equipment - but it's not the RIGHT thing to do.

In my recent forray into the scouts, via the crew...its seems they CAP is curtailed in local fund raising in comparasion.  And, while I will resist falling into unfair comparasions (which I often rail against) it just seems that they have much more fundraising opportunity as the Scouts than we do as CAP.  Likely do to having a paid staff office in every council (which I would not support for CAP).

[Earhart1971]

And then what, you rasie the money for new equipment that become "corporate property" and sent to other..."better"...units?  I once asked for some UDF equipment to assist in the vast coverage area we operate in...I was told it was $700 or so and that I would have to raise the money.  We isntead use personal hand held scanners and self developed techniques for Ground UDF.

Keep in mind that there is a limited amount of equipment like that available. As DC, I want to have a spare DF unit available as a loaner. To meet the needs of my wing, I will be giving it up to a unit. Once it is gone, any other units wanting one will need to fund it themselves. Not ideal, but that's the hand we are dealt.

If your wing didn't have one to issue, you won't get one. And, as you were told, you'll have to fund it yourselves. I have a few units that have funded their own DF equipment (some have multiple DF units). As a matter of principle, I won't pull unit funded equipment unless the unit folds or I get orders from the wing CC to do so. Most DCs follow the same principle. Yes, we have the RIGHT to do so - after all, it is CAP owned equipment - but it's not the RIGHT thing to do.

In my recent forray into the scouts, via the crew...its seems they CAP is curtailed in local fund raising in comparasion.  And, while I will resist falling into unfair comparasions (which I often rail against) it just seems that they have much more fundraising opportunity as the Scouts than we do as CAP.  Likely do to having a paid staff office in every council (which I would not support for CAP).

We have 14 or 15 mandates or missions, why should we have to fund raise to support ourselves, we are already overtasked and under funded. What we got to send Cadets and Seniors out to raise funds too? Nope, not what we should have to do.