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Author Topic: Leave us out of it...  (Read 3161 times)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,920

« on: November 01, 2006, 10:43:59 PM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.

Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...

« Last Edit: November 01, 2006, 11:21:41 PM by Eclipse » Logged


CLB
Member

Posts: 66

« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2006, 11:59:46 PM »

AMEN!   

If you people are so dis-satisfied with CAP, you volunteered in....VOLUNTEER OUT! 

Don't cause this board to die because you hate the white line around the new ID card or some irrevelant crap like that. 
Logged
Capt Christopher Bishop
Coastal Charleston Composite Squadron
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2006, 12:00:12 AM »

I don't know if I am now or will be in the future one of those you're referring to. I enjoy a pretty lively discussion & like to be challenged to defend my ideas. I think that process in this company makes us better, & hence better able to serve our roles in CAP. I can come here & be at my most professional presenting a bland discussion that never makes me or anyone else uncomfortable, or I can let it hang out a touch WITHIN REASON & MUTUAL RESPECT to challenge myself & others to become better. I prefer the latter, but I also prefer community policing to slap me & others back in line if at any time those limits get pushed to a point that keeps this from being fun & interesting.
Logged
Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 557

« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2006, 12:04:00 AM »

It is all in good fun.....Conspiracy abounds in CAP, it is just reflective of our national political psyche.

The discussion of the many firings of Region and Wing Commanders is a very valid discussion topic which I've followed on several CAP Forums and Blog sites.  Good people are being forced out due to the bad decisions of one man who has failed to give a proper accounting of why.  We live in a democracy where I hope we hold our leadership accountable for their actions.  Right now there is no accountabilty for these actions.

Tony Pineda bemoaned the fact that people aren't stepping up to the plate to hold leadership positions on the Wing and Region level.  Why would one want to do this when they make a decision he doesn't agree with they get fired.

Logged
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
Major_Chuck
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 557

« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2006, 12:05:53 AM »

AMEN!   

If you people are so dis-satisfied with CAP, you volunteered in....VOLUNTEER OUT! 

Don't cause this board to die because you hate the white line around the new ID card or some irrevelant crap like that. 

Never said I was dissatisfied with CAP.  If so I wouldn't have been a member for 17 years through the good times and the bad. 
Logged
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard
ELTHunter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 346
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2006, 12:27:16 AM »

AMEN!   

If you people are so dis-satisfied with CAP, you volunteered in....VOLUNTEER OUT! 

Don't cause this board to die because you hate the white line around the new ID card or some irrelevant crap like that. 

Love or leave it huh?

I've spent part of six out of the last ten days working for CAP at both the Group and Squadron levels.  I'm more active now than at any time in the almost eight years I've been a member.  I spend an inordinate amount of my own time and money on CAP for the cadet program and ES programs (much to the dismay of my Wife).  I've earned every bit of the rank (Maj.) that I've gotten.  I seek no higher posting or office, and I have no hidden agenda.  I think I'm entitled to voice my opinion about issues regarding the organization if I feel like our leaders are not acting in the best interest of CAP.  Especially since we, the rank and file, have no say in their election, and no other way to voice ourselves.  You don't have to agree with my postings, or even read them.  That's why each thread has a title.

In general, I'm not dissatisfied with CAP.  I think it's a wonderful organization with fine core values and missions.  I try to personally live up to those values, I expect our leadership to to the same.
Logged
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer
Becks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 331

« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 12:37:17 AM »

Couldnt agree more Eclipse
Logged

BBATW
ZigZag911
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,985

« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2006, 12:48:37 AM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.

Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...


It strikes me that there are numerous threads and pages and what not on this forum....if a particular topic does not interest you, then don't read it, that's simple enough.

You seem to be inferring that 'free speech' is what doomed Civil Air Portal....if so, if you know that for a fact, then why don't you share your insights with the rest of us?

There are a significant number of people who have dedicated many years to CAP (in my case it's getting close to 40!) and are disheartened to see the inappropriate behavior on the part of some of the senior leadership.

Ignoring it and pretending it isn't there won't make it go away, nor will it change anything.

Logged
Johnny Yuma
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 612

« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 02:38:34 AM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.

Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...



Don't like the topic, try using the BACK button on your browser!
Logged
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"
 
" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
CLB
Member

Posts: 66

« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2006, 03:33:33 AM »

AMEN!   

If you people are so dis-satisfied with CAP, you volunteered in....VOLUNTEER OUT! 

Don't cause this board to die because you hate the white line around the new ID card or some irrelevant crap like that. 

Love or leave it huh?

I've spent part of six out of the last ten days working for CAP at both the Group and Squadron levels.  I'm more active now than at any time in the almost eight years I've been a member.  I spend an inordinate amount of my own time and money on CAP for the cadet program and ES programs (much to the dismay of my Wife).  I've earned every bit of the rank (Maj.) that I've gotten.  I seek no higher posting or office, and I have no hidden agenda.  I think I'm entitled to voice my opinion about issues regarding the organization if I feel like our leaders are not acting in the best interest of CAP.  Especially since we, the rank and file, have no say in their election, and no other way to voice ourselves.  You don't have to agree with my postings, or even read them.  That's why each thread has a title.

In general, I'm not dissatisfied with CAP.  I think it's a wonderful organization with fine core values and missions.  I try to personally live up to those values, I expect our leadership to to the same.

Good for you, and I certainly salute you for your service and time/effort put in sir. 

Now don't be one of the individuals that clog this board with meaningless posts and non-stop rants about what we should be and offer no suggestions on how to get there. 
Logged
Capt Christopher Bishop
Coastal Charleston Composite Squadron
Becks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 331

« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2006, 03:39:21 AM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.


Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...


Don't like the topic, try using the BACK button on your browser!

Likewise you could have used to back button if you didnt like what Eclipse had to say.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 06:49:17 PM by Becks » Logged

BBATW
ZigZag911
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,985

« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2006, 01:54:03 PM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.

Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...



Don't like the topic, try using the BACK button on your browser!


Or try not joining our site and acting like a pompous ass to a very well respected member of our community like Eclipse.  Dont like it?  Try the edit membership button.

No one is showing lack of respect to Eclipse.

Some of us have pointed out that, if he does not care to participate in a particular thread, he is under no obligation to do so.

It would indeed be a wonderful world if all you good folks at the local level could make your valuable contributions to the community without reference to the larger organization.

Unfortunately, this is not the reality we face....and, if in fact you dedicated members in the squadrons are going to be able to continue doing the good you have been doing, some of us 'field grade dinosaurs' need to put our heads together and stand up for what's right...things like Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence and Respect.....

The postings that strike some of you as mere ranting and raving are, in fact, information and intelligence of inestimable value to officers dedicated to returning CAP to living the Core Values....by the nature of the organization we are spread all over the country, generally don't know one another, and think we're rowing upstream virtually alone....

If reading this stuff upsets anyone, then don't read it....but PLEASE allow the exchange of information to continue unhindered....eventually, hopefully, it will lead to positive change.
Logged
Becks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 331

« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2006, 04:03:13 PM »

In the day since CAPortal went offline, the traffic on this board appears to have increased significantly - that's good, I guess.

However...

The tone and timber are also, apparently changing, and not for the better.
Several newbs have posted comments with a decidedly darker, conspiratorial tone, or appear to be spoiling for fights, needlessly.

Lord knows I enjoy a hearty discussion, but the nonsense that killed CAPortal and similar sites does NOT need a new home.

Let it die or take it somewhere somebody cares.

Disclaimer:  I am not an admin, am not connected with any of these sites, and am not suggesting Freedom of Speech be curtailed, however this board has a core audience of invested senior members who generally debate topics of regs and procedures, and that's how it should stay...



Don't like the topic, try using the BACK button on your browser!


Or try not joining our site and acting like a pompous ass to a very well respected member of our community like Eclipse.  Dont like it?  Try the edit membership button.

No one is showing lack of respect to Eclipse.

Some of us have pointed out that, if he does not care to participate in a particular thread, he is under no obligation to do so.


Correct, then it should have been phrased as such by Yuma, and not in the way it was.
Logged

BBATW
Smokey
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 501

« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2006, 04:10:34 PM »

I think reasonable CIVIL discussions can be had here and elsewhere. A difference of opinion expressed without insult is healthy.  I've learned and changed some ideas based on what I've seen here, in CAPPortal, CAP Blog, etc.

A comment that may offend is not necessarily an insult.  If someone asks " Who farted" it isn't an insult although it may be offensive.........
Logged
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.
DNall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,721

« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2006, 05:23:08 PM »

Mr Beckham,

If I may be so bold as to impose... if anyone did or did not act like an ass somewhere above or elsewhere, it's inappropriate to address them in the way you did. You can't comment in a thread about keeping it in the lines, & in support of the one who started it, when what you type is in fact out of line. Now, I'm new here this go round, but I and many of the people your're cautioning have been in CAP for close to as long as you've been alive, and many of these people do actually play at a level that allows them a degree of influence over policy &/or the ear of those that do. We're all passionate & have the best of intentions. It would be nice if we could abide by the core values & work together for the future.
Logged
Pylon
Administrator

Posts: 5,165
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2006, 05:34:11 PM »

Let me just go ahead and put my perspective on this.

CAPTalk is for everybody.  CAP Senior Members, CAP cadets, family of CAP members, and non-members.  It's for high-echelon leadership and squadron staff members.  It's also a place where everyone has the opportunity to share their point-of-view.

Jerry and I have rarely locked a discussion here on CAPTalk.  Mostly, this is because of the outstanding professionalism of the people on the discussion board.  Even when debates have gotten heated and many people were differing in opinion, the debates remained civil and professional.

This thread is close to crossing that line, outside of the realm of being civil, courteous, and professional.




A word to the wise is sufficient.
Logged
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
Major Carrales
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,107

« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 07:29:53 PM »

This thread is close to crossing that line, outside of the realm of being civil, courteous, and professional.

I agree...y'all, we'all, need to calm down and follow the mantra of "civil, courteous, and professional."
Logged
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
shorning
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 973

« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2006, 08:32:10 PM »

This thread is close to crossing that line, outside of the realm of being civil, courteous, and professional.

I agree...y'all, we'all, need to calm down and follow the mantra of "civil, courteous, and professional."

Or just role model the "officer" part of our title...
Logged
alexalvarez
Forum Regular

Posts: 165

« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2006, 01:36:55 AM »

Amen to that!
Logged
Ch, Lt. Col., Alex Alvarez
Alamo Composite Squadron, Bexar County Squadron, San Antonio, Texas
Group V Chaplain
Mitchell 1967, Earhart 1967, C/ Lt. Col. 1969
Fifty Year Member 2014
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