Memory Work from the dark ages-George Washington and profanity

[Major Lord]

One of my friends, a former CAP cadet in the 1970's, shared one of his pieces of encampment memory work:

The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing, a vice hitherto little known in our American Army is growing into fashion. He hopes that the officers will, by example as well as influence, endeavor to check it and that both they and the men will reflect that we can little hope of the blessing of Heaven on our army if we insult it by our impiety and folly. Added to this it is a vice so mean and low without any temptation that every man of sense and character detests and despises it.

(Signed,) George Washington

Major Lord

[Spike]

^ I have seen that floated on the internet as well as in print.  However that was never spoken or written by Washinton.  The myth comes from a book Washington carried from childhood that described 100 proper manners children must master.  It was a schoolbook (try to teach that in school these days and you will get sued!).

However, I agree with the sentiment and idea the passage is trying to get across.  A person does not need to swear to express emotion toward an individual or situation.  Swearing is an idiots way of expressing feelings, and if a person can not control themselves enough then to use words the world considers disparaging and vulgar, can they really control any improper action??

In CAP, I have pulled Colonels and Cadets aside to express how idiotic they look for swearing.  We are supposed to be Officers (and Gentleman), lets act like it! 

[Gunner C]

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It was true then, it is true now. "In order to receive the blessings of heaven, you must first endeavor to follow the rules.  They are not there to restrict, they are there to help."

Yes, we are officers.  We should be gentlemen. 

[flyguy06]

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It was true then, it is true now. "In order to receive the blessings of heaven, you must first endeavor to follow the rules.  They are not there to restrict, they are there to help."

Yes, we are officers.  We should be gentlemen.

except the female officers 

[Ned]

The idea that no gentleman ever swears is all wrong. He can swear and still be a gentleman if he does it in a nice and benevolent and affectionate way.

When angry count four; when very angry, swear.

Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.

I don't swear just for the hell of it. Language is a poor enough means of communication. I think we should all the words we've got. Besides, there are [darn] few words that anybody understands.

Some unquestionably great leaders have been known to swear on occasion - Patton, for example.

Not saying it was right, just noting that outstanding leaders have been known to use colorful language.  Would they have been better leaders if they had not?

Interesting thought.

[Cecil DP]

There is a difference between using profanity as a manner of speech  and using it for effect.

[Spike]

^ You do not need to swear to get your point across.  There is no more positive "effect" gained by swearing than there is by not swearing.   

[Gunner C]

Not saying it was right, just noting that outstanding leaders have been known to use colorful language.  Would they have been better leaders if they had not?

Interesting thought.

I've seen people "grow up" as leaders.  As they get older and wiser, they become better leaders.  You'll find a much smaller percentage of O-6s who swear than O-3s.  They find out that profanity clouds the message.  I've known officers who won't even raise their voices unless there's too much ambient noise.  People listened to them, not because they swore up a storm, but because

• Their word was their bond
• They had shown that they had good ideas
• Their reputation was such that when they spoke, they were worth listening to

I've found in the civilian world, more times than not, you don't find leaders who swear.  They either changed or the ones that did just didn't impress people.

(Hopefully, the stuff above made sense.  I'm communicating (attempting) through the fog of pain meds)

[Fifinella]

^ I have seen that floated on the internet as well as in print.  However that was never spoken or written by Washinton.  The myth comes from a book Washington carried from childhood that described 100 proper manners children must master.  It was a schoolbook (try to teach that in school these days and you will get sued!).

Interesting.  Proof please?  I was taught this was, indeed, from Gen. Washington: General Order to the Continental Army, 3 Aug 1776.  Thanks.

[Ned]

Not saying it was right, just noting that outstanding leaders have been known to use colorful language.  Would they have been better leaders if they had not?

Interesting thought.

I've seen people "grow up" as leaders.  As they get older and wiser, they become better leaders.  You'll find a much smaller percentage of O-6s who swear than O-3s.  They find out that profanity clouds the message.

I concur that the average O6 spends a lot less time in "colorful" mode than O3's.

My take on that was simply - all things being equal - O3s spend a lot more time in the trenches at the company level dealing directly with our more colorful enlisted soldiers and non-commissioned officers. And that sometimes it can be helpful when communicating with folks at the company level to speak directly and plainly.  And from time to time, in appropriate circumstances, "swear words" can convey a sense of urgency to the listener and help communicate the importance of the message conveyed by the O3.

I rarely heard the "f-word" during brigade level briefings (notice I did not say "never"), but it was heard in the motor pool on a fairly frequent basis.

And both the outstanding soldiers in the motor pool and the terrific officers on brigade staff did their jobs efficiently.

Ned Lee
Retired Army Guy
(including an O3 company command and brigade primary staff)

[Major Lord]

My posting was really not so much to take a moral stand on profanity ( who are we kidding?) but to point out a peculiar bit of CAP lore. When you take the position that no one should ever swear, you denigrate the U.S. Navy,and Marine Corps, which run entirely on profanity, blasphemy, and obscenity ( Important sub-species of swearing, in my opinion) And when that happens, you besmirch the entire United States of America, and we will have none of that! The alleged orders of G. Washington to me seem to be a particularly evil bit of memory work though, to add to lives of cadets who have runaway pottymouths, and in that, its seems to have some utility. Who could call learning an important lesson from one of the Founding Fathers hazing?

Major Lord
p.s. Laughed out load and nearly spit Coca Cola through my nose when I read the assertion that Officers don't swear.....maybe in the Salvation Army!

[Eclipse]

^ I have seen that floated on the internet as well as in print.  However that was never spoken or written by Washington.

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/revolution/profanity_1.html


Head Quarters, New York, August 3rd 1776.
Parole Uxbridge. Countersign Virginia

That the Troops may have an opportunity of attending public worship, as well as take some rest after the great fatigue they have gone through; The General in future excuses them from fatigue duty on Sundays (except at the Ship Yards, or special occasions) until further orders. [1] The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish, and wicked practice, of profane cursing and swearing (a Vice heretofore little known in an American Army) is growing into fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example, as well as influence, endeavour to check it, and that both they, and the men will reflect, that we can have little hopes of the blessing of Heaven on our Arms, if we insult it by our impiety, and folly; added to this, it is a vice so mean and low, without any temptation, that every man of sense, and character, detests and despises it.

Clarkson and Chase under confinement for Desertion, and reinlistment into the Artillery, from another Corps, to return to Capt: Bauman's Company until Col. Ellmores Regiment, wh. claims them, comes into camp.

[NIN]

I had a problem in my unit a number of years ago where some of the cadets thought they needed to swear at their cadets to get their point across.  Some parents complained, and following that, I put out the word "You swear at or in front of your troops, I'm taking a stripe. No questions asked."

Anybody who knows me that I can cuss up a blue streak, but I almost *never* swear in front of the troops.  By "almost never" I mean like "never."  It takes work, but its a leadership thing for me: if you're gonna demand it from the troops, you can't do it yourself.

Couple months after my edict, a cadet officer came to me about some complaints from other cadets that one of the flight commanders was swearing at his cadets.  He provided me written statements from cadets in the the flight commander's flight with specific statements and instances.

I investigated, pulled the cadet in for a counseling (he'd already been warned at least once previously) and demoted per 52-16. And I made sure that the squadron, especially his cadets, knew it.  (not in an overt way, but it was clear enough).

Mom comes in the following week, frothing at the mouth about how we were picking on her son, I was being capricious and arbitrary,  he says he didn't do it, etc, etc. I let her go on for a few minutes, then slid the written statements across the table to her. "You condone this kind of language out of your 15 year old son?"

She read the statements and I watched the color drain out of her face.  She apologized profusely for wasting my time and being wrong, and said "You can take another stripe if you like.."



Suffice to say, I didn't take another stripe for swearing the rest of the time as the commander.

[Gunner C]

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Well played!  Bravo!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I think I've seen that story NIN posted on CS as well! Copying your own posts are you.

[Al Sayre]

I've also seen a rather profane follow on to the GW order, purported to be a speech given by a 1st Sgt relaying the order to the enlisted men...   

[PHall]

A couple of years ago at the CAWG Encampment several of us "more experienced" types amazed the Cadet Staff by being able to recite General Washington's Code from memory.
And CAWG hasn't used it since about 1980 or so.

[flyguy06]

General George Patton

[Short Field]

General George Patton

And if anyone complains, just slap them in the face....   

[Major Lord]

George Patton (May he live forever in the Halls of Valhalla) never swore.....he just had frank exchanges of information with his subordinates and enemies.

Major Lord