Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 23, 2019, 01:38:16 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: "promotable" specialty tracks
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]  All Print
Author Topic: "promotable" specialty tracks  (Read 11341 times)
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,341

« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2009, 10:49:08 PM »

True, but without the person shuffling the paper, the salesman doesn't have a job.
Logged
Short Field
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,003

« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2009, 12:48:02 AM »

Sure, it does.  Paperwork shuffling positions are very important to any organization, but notice that most of the time those in the more "operational" roles (whatever that may be in a particular organization) are generally recognized with higher pay and faster promotions because there are some essential differences in the difficulty of their jobs and their direct relationship to the purpose of the organization.

Have you every stopped to thnk that part of the problem with CAP are the ones in the "operational" roles who have no understanding about what it takes to run a unit, no interest in professional development, and no concern about taking care of any paperwork that does not directly relate to them getting to fly?  I see way too many people who are in Flight Ops, Stand/Eval, and Operations who have almost no interest in anything outside of flying.   They also refuse to get qualifed in any ES qualification that does not directly relate to them being able to fly.   ALL of the effective squadrons I have seen are being led by people who do not have one of your "leadership" speciality tracks.  This goes beyond just the Commanders and includes their effective staffmembers.

Your "papershufflers" are the ones who release the flights, fly and crew the airplanes, and man mission base.   They are also the ones who ensure the squadrons run smoothly and effectively, increase the unit's membership, and take care of our assets.

Logged
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640
Larry Mangum
Global Moderator

Posts: 678

« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2009, 01:23:30 AM »

Still trying to fix a problem that does not exist.

Sure, it does.  Paperwork shuffling positions are very important to any organization, but notice that most of the time those in the more "operational" roles (whatever that may be in a particular organization) are generally recognized with higher pay and faster promotions because there are some essential differences in the difficulty of their jobs and their direct relationship to the purpose of the organization.

Have you every stopped to think that part of the problem with CAP are the ones in the "operational" roles who have no understanding about what it takes to run a unit, no interest in professional development, and no concern about taking care of any paperwork that does not directly relate to them getting to fly?  I see way too many people who are in Flight Ops, Stand/Eval, and Operations who have almost no interest in anything outside of flying.   They also refuse to get qualified in any ES qualification that does not directly relate to them being able to fly.   ALL of the effective squadrons I have seen are being led by people who do not have one of your "leadership" speciality tracks.  This goes beyond just the Commanders and includes their effective staffmembers.

Your "papershufflers" are the ones who release the flights, fly and crew the airplanes, and man mission base.   They are also the ones who ensure the squadrons run smoothly and effectively, increase the unit's membership, and take care of our assets.



I have to agree with both of the quotes above.  Rather then having found a problem that needs fixed and then proposing a solution;  you seem to have found a solution and are now looking for a problem you can solve with the solution. 

Most of the successful leaders I have meet in CAP do not have just one specialty track.  What they do all have in common is a desire to help others; are self motivated; have a vision for the unit; possess leadership skills; and have some basic organizational skills.  No one or even several tracks will give you that.

Of all of the traits I mentioned above Leadership training is where CAP falls short. We do a fairly good job of teaching cadets to be leasers and are miserable failures at doing the same for the seniors. So spend sometime figuring out how we can improve leadership training for the seniors and not on developing command tracks.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 01:26:47 AM by MIKE » Logged
Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-LA-966
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,977

« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2009, 04:29:26 AM »

Ah, the argument with no substance --- we can count on someone to say "solution in search of a problem" in response to 100% of proposals put forward by anyone on CAPTalk about any issue.  If I get really bored some day I may just do a statistical study to back this up, but I'm pretty confident its true. 

No, this would not address all leadership issues in CAP and is not meant to.  It is to aid recognition of those that have demonstrated some leadership capability that others have not.  If you want to revamp CAP's senior member leadership development program, feel free to try, but don't expect much.  I'm trying to work within the realm of the remotely feasible. 

I'm not surprised that some are going to be defensive about being told that their supporting roles are actually supportive of our primary purposes for being here.  Especially if they're in a position that is often unfilled in many squadrons, calling into question just how necessary it is in the first place. 




Logged
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,671

« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2009, 05:01:21 AM »

Yea...that's it.  We are all mad that you called us useless drones.

Except that I have a Masters in CP, a tech in ES and a tech in AE and twice held command.

Shortfield is a pilot, a Master in ES, a personnel officer....

Your solution will not fix the problem of officers getting promoted to high rank with no leadership skills.

It will create a two class system of officers.  It will mean that officers who know the system who want to go for high rank will avoid "bad" specialties. 

But I know what this is about

Quote
It is to aid recognition of those that have demonstrated some leadership capability that others have not.
This is all about making your achievements stand out more.
Logged
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Larry Mangum
Global Moderator

Posts: 678

« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2009, 03:40:43 PM »

Ah, the argument with no substance --- we can count on someone to say "solution in search of a problem" in response to 100% of proposals put forward by anyone on CAPTalk about any issue.  If I get really bored some day I may just do a statistical study to back this up, but I'm pretty confident its true. 

No, this would not address all leadership issues in CAP and is not meant to.  It is to aid recognition of those that have demonstrated some leadership capability that others have not.  If you want to revamp CAP's senior member leadership development program, feel free to try, but don't expect much.  I'm trying to work within the realm of the remotely feasible. 

I'm not surprised that some are going to be defensive about being told that their supporting roles are actually supportive of our primary purposes for being here.  Especially if they're in a position that is often unfilled in many squadrons, calling into question just how necessary it is in the first place.

All yes, I am getting all defensive, with my Master in Admin, Master in ES, Master in IT and lowly Senior rating in Communications. I never said I wanted to redo professional development, simply that we need to do a better job of teaching leadership to our seniors. 
Logged
Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-LA-966
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: "promotable" specialty tracks
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.28 seconds with 25 queries.