Border patrol

[Flying Pig]

Does AZ NM and TX Wings patrol the Mexican Border like CAWG does?  If not, why not?  Are there wings that patrol the Canadian Border?

[bosshawk]

Rob: I know that Idaho Wing has, in the past, done a few flights along the Canadian border.  I have a friend up there who has flown that mission once or twice, but I get the impression that it is an irregular thing.  Don't know about the rest of the Mexican border states.

[Levi]

I know that the Maine cap squadrons are not normally called upon to assist in border crossing violations.

[TXCAP]

TX Wing flies several border missions every year plus ELT/SAR missions.  In September this year we conducted a search for a missing US pilot south of the border at the invitation of the Mexican government.  Unfortunately there was no find. 

Last year during Hurricane Ike TXWG participated along with CBP in searching for a missing aircraft carrying U.S. and Mexican officials of the International Water Boundary and Water Commission that went missing in poor weather along the Rio Grande near Presidio, TX/Ojinaga, MX.  The plane was found by CBP aircraft crashed in the Sierra Madre Mountains and confirmed by a Mexican ground team.

[Flying Pig]

Im not referring to ELT and SAR flights that happen to be near the border.  I was referring to actual border patrol flights.

[TXCAP]

Sorry I was not more clear.  Yes, we fly several border patrol missions every year.

[bosshawk]

The question that Flying Pig posed really had to do with regular missions along the border, supporting one of the law enforcement agencies charged with that responsibility.  CAWG is tasked for flying a portion of the CA/Mexico border 42 weekends per year, three days each weekend.  That is a major undertaking and he is trying to see if anyone else has anything like that on the books.

[TXCAP]

TXWG does not currently do border missions as you describe.  We have been doing a series of three or four weekends about three times a year to support a federal mission. 

[wingnut55]

Gee I wonder who is responsible for CAWG getting those missions.

NOT National

So it begs the question: If we are such an important asset, why does National CAP leave the real work to the Wings?

It is clear we have two separate CAPs, or should I say 51+ wings, and National HQ.

CAP takes a 10% cut and NHQ retaliated by not flying in support of Home Land Security.

I am ashamed

[Gunner C]

Gee I wonder who is responsible for CAWG getting those missions.

1st AF and the Border Patrol area commander.

[Flying Pig]

Gee I wonder who is responsible for CAWG getting those missions.

NOT National

So it begs the question: If we are such an important asset, why does National CAP leave the real work to the Wings?

It is clear we have two separate CAPs, or should I say 51+ wings, and National HQ.

CAP takes a 10% cut and NHQ retaliated by not flying in support of Home Land Security.

I am ashamed

I dont know the status of other wings and their aircraft, but I would venture to guess (and its only a guess) that not a lot of wings have the aircraft or aircrews to support a year round mission.  However, something would be better than nothing.
CA is unique in that we have more people in CD than a lot of wings have members.  And what, 25+ aircraft?

[lordmonar]

Gee I wonder who is responsible for CAWG getting those missions.

NOT National

So it begs the question: If we are such an important asset, why does National CAP leave the real work to the Wings?

It is clear we have two separate CAPs, or should I say 51+ wings, and National HQ.

CAP takes a 10% cut and NHQ retaliated by not flying in support of Home Land Security.

I am ashamed

??

National makes the local wings coordinate with local customers because that is their job.

If National made the promises and obligated the wing to fly missions.....how would that look if the wing could not follow up?

If AZWG or TXWG wants to fly DHS mission....they only need to get with their local guys and start working the contacts.

Sometimes the lack of mission is due to the local guys not wanting them.  I know here in NVWG we did not fly CD missions for many years because the BLM guy did not like CAP for some reason.  WE kept pushing and once the old guy moved on we started getting more missions.  In fact BLM asked for so many missions this year USAF told them no because they had not budgeted enough money.

National is a policy and governance body....not an operational one.  Even the national level projects such as the Surrogate UAV program is run by wing level people.  National has nothing to do with the operational side of that program....the wing does.

As for retaliation.....well you take a 10% budget cut....what do you cut?  Our primary ES mission is SAR/DR for the USAF, not CD, not DHS.  Do we tell the USAF that we will not fly some of their missions because we want to fly DHS mission instead?

[SDF_Specialist]

I CAP doing border patrol missions was few and far between. When I was in, a lot of the CAP pilots in my area contacted Wing about doing coastal patrols (my state is along the great lakes). They were told no by Wing HQ, and the Coast Guard. It would have been great because it could have given the pilots some flight hours.

[Flying Pig]

I CAP doing border patrol missions was few and far between. When I was in, a lot of the CAP pilots in my area contacted Wing about doing coastal patrols (my state is along the great lakes). They were told no by Wing HQ, and the Coast Guard. It would have been great because it could have given the pilots some flight hours.

Of course, NEVER try to sell a program citing that it will give our pilots more fight time.  The agencies arent paying for that.  During our patrols, they dont even want us doing practice IFR approaches into Imperial Airport.  Its not up to that agency to pay for our training.

[SDF_Specialist]

Of course, NEVER try to sell a program citing that it will give our pilots more fight time.

Of course not!! I don't know how the topic was approached, or who was approached when this was proposed. Even if it wasn't mentioned to whomever it was proposed to, you know it was going through the minds of the CAP members proposing!

[lordmonar]

Well....depending on when the coast guard was approached....the CGAUX used to have an air arm.  They may have said no because they already had it covered.  IIRC the CGAUX does not fly anymore.  It may be worth getting with the CGAUX and seeing if you all can't work together on it.

It all boils down to money.  If the CG is not willing to pay for it...it's not going to happen.

[SDF_Specialist]

I met a few CGAUX folks a few years at a local airport who had just landed. They said they were up trying to get some more flight time. It could've been for the CGAUX, or just for themselves.

I don't think the USCG was approached by CAP in my state to ask for payment. I think they were just brought into the loop and decided to weigh in. In my particular area, the CGAUX makes a strong presence, as well as the CG. I think there's only one or two CAP planes in my area, so it really wouldn't make sense having only two planes patrol an area IF they were both up at the same time.

[RiverAux]

CG Aux does still have an active air arm, though it is relatively small (a few hundred planes and not that many more pilots).  And CG could not say NO to CAP conducting an sort of patrol it wants to do, and in fact there are several current and past instances of CAP conducting coastal patrols in recent years.  Now, CG could certainly say that they're not going to fund such patrols, but they can't say we can't do them. 

[Rotorhead]

Gee I wonder who is responsible for CAWG getting those missions.

NOT National

So it begs the question: If we are such an important asset, why does National CAP leave the real work to the Wings?

It is clear we have two separate CAPs, or should I say 51+ wings, and National HQ.

CAP takes a 10% cut and NHQ retaliated by not flying in support of Home Land Security.

I am ashamed

Based on your posts, I'm thinkin' CAP is not for you.