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Author Topic: My 6 Year Feik Ribbon Dilemma  (Read 6127 times)
Майор Хаткевич
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« on: October 23, 2009, 09:51:19 AM »

As a preface, I'm trying to get back into CAP in a limited capacity in order to achieve some more as a cadet.

I'm in the process of reordering some uniform supplies and figured my ribbons most likely need replacement.

The dilemma is this:

I became a member in May of 2003. This was right after the switch to the system which now includes the Feik Achievement and the Wright Brothers Award.

Unfortunately the unit I belonged to when I joined had a few major issues, including the only knowledgeable cadets leaving for college at the end of that summer, a lackluster senior organization with little knowledge or interest in the cadet program, and general mayhem.

I believe I became a C/Amn in June, C/A1C in August, C/SrA in October, and C/SSgt in December. I was pretty high speed and due to the circumstances in my unit, three others and I decided to learn as much as we could on our own. Then again, even if we weren't, we'd probably still endup getting pencil whipped up the ranks.

Come December-January, and we had a new Captain transfer into the unit who used to be a cadet LtCol, and had knowledge of the CAP program. He halted our promotions, a good idea in retrospect, until he was able to see where the unit stood.

The next time I was promoted was end of April or early May of 2004, right after my basic encampment. The issue here was that two of us got bumped two grades to C/MSgt because of the offset that was created when the WBA was created. I tried appealing to the Captain, telling him that since I had joined after the policy came to be, I shouldn't be getting the bump. He insisted that because of the way the program changed, it had to be done. Looking back it may have had to do with what the achievement structure did, since I had Achievement 5 completed for C/TSgt, but the new system had it for C/MSgt. Still, even with the time served it came down to 4 months as a C/SSgt and a bump to C/MSgt right after, and I didn't like it.

When I transferred to my new unit in August of 2005, I was a C/CMSgt, and had almost everything completed for my Mitchell. I received my Mitchell Award at Encampment Graduation - I was the First Sergeant.

When I was issued my Mitchell number, I was also retroactively given a Wright Brothers number as well.

So the issue comes down to this: I took the Wright Brothers Achievement because my unit never ordered/received the Feik/WBA tests until mid 2004. I wore the Wright Brothers ribbon, and still do, but I never put on a Feik because I never took the test.

Three arguments that can come from this include:

- Wear of the Feik based on corresponding achievement, and non wear of Wright Brothers due to never taking the Award Test.

- Wear of the Wright Brothers, as it was the test I took, even though it was technically the Feik Achievement at the time.

- Wear both, as I was retroactively issued the number for the WBA.

From a personal standpoint, those of us who were stuck in this situation liked not having the Feik simply because it meant to us that we were the pre-change cadets, even if we weren't. It became awkward when I met Mrs. Feik at HGA in 05, but no big deal, still have the picture, just declined getting the signed certificate for the achievement by her.

Thoughts on my options?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 10:02:09 AM »

- Wear of the Wright Brothers, as it was the test I took, even though it was technically the Feik Achievement at the time.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 10:21:12 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 10:05:41 AM »

The answer is in your question...

But I also mention that "technically" it was the Feik Achievement test.
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dwb
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 10:10:13 AM »

Rule of thumb: If you did not take the comprehensive Wright Bros exam, then you progressed under the "old" system and thus did not complete the Feik achievement.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 10:14:12 AM »

Rule of thumb: If you did not take the comprehensive Wright Bros exam, then you progressed under the "old" system and thus did not complete the Feik achievement.

That's the assumption I've been going off for the last four years or so. As for it being comprehensive...having helped a number of cadets with their WBA prep, and debrief, it doesn't seem any harder than any given achievement before it.
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dwb
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 10:19:10 AM »

It doesn't seem harder to you, but you're a lot older now than the cadets taking the exam.  ;)

You joined at just the right time for this confusion to arise.  Still, following the rule of thumb above makes it easy: you earned a Wright Bros ribbon, but did not earn a Feik ribbon.

BTW, this same issue came up in the late 90s when they introduced the Armstrong achievement.  There were some cadet officers that had an Armstrong ribbon, and some that didn't, depending on when they joined.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »

You are talking about getting back into CAP as a cadet?  Based on your time line, you must be at least 18 by now right?   Id say since you have the WBR award, then thats the one you wear.

So your a C/2Lt now?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 12:37:26 PM »

I'm turning 20 in February, and I have my Earhart Numbers clocked in at 31 MAR 07.

I was simply wondering what the prevailing ideas are based on the Charlie Foxtrot of my early CAP career.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 12:40:29 PM »

Ahhhh.. Id say if you took the WB, then go with that.  Being your already a C/Capt. I cant imagine anyone giving you any hassle or even noticing for that matter.  Welcome back.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 12:57:43 PM »

Yea, I 'deactivated' August 2008 due to moving to the city for school. In reality I deactivated in August 2007 when I went to Europe before Basic, and then came back deciding to go to college in England. That would need money, so I needed to work. Working took me away from CAP and I was hit and miss on meetings. Thus no progression since the Earhart, at all.

Right now, I figure is as good a time as any to get to C/Maj, a grade that gets me a diamond, gets no respect in the senior program (no C/Maj ribbon that is), and something that was my shortstop goal when I realized Spaatz might not be something I can make. But we'll see. I'm doing this for me, because I figure if I want to get in shape, I need to have something to strive for.

As a side note, had I not renewed this month, two more and I would renew automatically as a SMWOG, because it would be past the 6 month grace period. Scary now that I think about it.
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shorning
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 01:01:00 PM »

From what you've described about your life choices, perhaps becoming a senior is in your best interest.  It's not a death sentence afterall....
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 01:04:43 PM »

No, and I do plan to stick with CAP, at least after college as a Senior. But I'd still like to get as far as I can before I clock out as a cadet.

Plus, having a real break of a year or two after that will let me separate myself from the cadet mentality, and I may actually re-engage in the cadet program as a senior member.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 01:06:49 PM »

Based on age and current grade, Spaatz isn't off the table yet, is it?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 01:23:27 PM »

I did the math, and If I get to my goal weight by December (on schedule right now)
Do the "hitting that 6:14 mile" program from CS for 3 months, I can get started in February, so that gives me a year.

Based on the Awesome Cadet Super Chart that was developed:

Achievement 12: Feb 10
Achievement 13: Apr 10
Achievement 14: May 10 (C/Maj)
Achievement 15: Jul 10
Achievement 16: Sep 10
Eaker: Nov 10 (C/LtCol)
Spaatz: Nov 10 - 15 February 11 (I turn 21)

Of course this is pushing it in real close to minimum times, but I'd only get one shot at the Spaatz anyway given that I get to the Eaker. 

IF I receive the Eaker by November, then the formal procedure to get the ball rolling on the Spaatz takes about a month from what I read in CAPR 52-16. At that point I'd be able to test in December/January, and if I pass great,  but if I fail any part of the test, then that it, as NHQ takes some 30 days to report back on the first try, and the cadet needs to wait another 60 days to retest.

Still, if I get there or not, I'll probably kick myself down the road if I don't try.
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swamprat86
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 01:40:58 PM »

I am firm believer that even if you only get to take it once, do it.  Pass or fail, you made the attempt.  So I would keep on track with trying to aim for the Spaatz.  Making the attempt under difficult conditions is sometimes as admirable as passing the test.

But I am also slightly biased, I was a one attempt Spaatz test taker in my day.  :)
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2009, 01:44:45 PM »

That's what I'm thinking. Weight gain was really what stalled me out at one point, and college didn't help. But, down some 22 pounds in the last month from my peak, so all should be good in a month or so.

At that point it's getting back in shape, dumping bad habits, and putting my ass in gear.

Besides, I took and passed on the first try the 100 Q Mitchell in 8 minutes and 42 seconds and the 50/50Q Earhart in 15 minutes, it's not the material that slows me down, it's the running.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 01:50:34 PM by USAFaux2004 » Logged
IceNine
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 01:52:10 PM »

I did the math, and If I get to my goal weight by December (on schedule right now)
Do the "hitting that 6:14 mile" program from CS for 3 months, I can get started in February, so that gives me a year.

Based on the Awesome Cadet Super Chart that was developed:

Achievement 12: Feb 10
Achievement 13: Apr 10
Achievement 14: May 10 (C/Maj)
Achievement 15: Jul 10
Achievement 16: Sep 10
Eaker: Nov 10 (C/LtCol)
Spaatz: Nov 10 - 15 February 11 (I turn 21)

Of course this is pushing it in real close to minimum times, but I'd only get one shot at the Spaatz anyway given that I get to the Eaker. 

IF I receive the Eaker by November, then the formal procedure to get the ball rolling on the Spaatz takes about a month from what I read in CAPR 52-16. At that point I'd be able to test in December/January, and if I pass great,  but if I fail any part of the test, then that it, as NHQ takes some 30 days to report back on the first try, and the cadet needs to wait another 60 days to retest.

Still, if I get there or not, I'll probably kick myself down the road if I don't try.

Just figured out who you actually are.  We have NHGA in common (I went the year before you).

Anyway of course you should wear the wright brothers and forget the Feik.  At the end of the day it doesn't change anything, and it avoids uncomfortable conversations.

You and I both know the guy(s) who made this decision know the CP inside and out.  I have complete faith in their assessment and you should to.

Anyway, good luck with all of this I hope it comes out ok on the other side.

BTW- If you don't at least try for spaatz then the road may just fork you!
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »

Heh, just because I'm Russian I need the road fork you jokes?

:D
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Eclipse
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 01:59:51 PM »

IF I receive the Eaker by November, then the formal procedure to get the ball rolling on the Spaatz takes about a month from what I read in CAPR 52-16.

Assuming you get to that point, it doesn't have to take a month.  The SD is in you area, and is flexible for these kinds of things.  My advice is to start getting things going today and not to focus on a goal weight, just start challenging the PT, etc. 

Try and get things together so that you have a second try at Spaatz.

There's no shame in doing your best and missing the mark.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2009, 02:06:13 PM »

Diet I'm on will go bad if I overexert, because then the body will retain fat instead of burning it.

I'm done with the diet just after thanksgiving. I KNOW my mile sucks, always had.

I plan on getting the testing and SDA out of the way, so the lynch pin will be the PT. I'm still flexible and am just off the mark on the situps with the current extra pounds. The push ups are an issue, but again, I can work on it and it is 2 out of three.

As for the runs, I may attempt to do the shuttle for the first few achievements to keep up with the schedule, and build up (down) my mile (time), to where I can actually have a shot at that 6:23 mile.

Then again, the Spaatz is the same as the rest of the program 2 out of 3 plus run, so if I know the mile will be an issue, I can always get the shuttle done, and take a victory mile after that.

But this is at least a year away, and the real issue with the application for the test is wing level. Not sure how it is now, but if I have to send stuff up for approval through unit-group-wing, I'm worried on the response time at wing and not so much as SD.

The upside? Since at 19 I'm over a hump of sorts, I need to do less situps than a 17 year old! lol.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: My 6 Year Feik Ribbon Dilemma
 


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