On-base housing for CAP members?

[RiverAux]

Air Force Times is reporting that a lot of AF-housing is going underutilized and some at least is being used by civilians and families of contractors. 

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/10/airforce_housing_100809w/

If they're having problems filling houses, why not make them available to rent to CAP members?  Heck, maybe let CAP use them for offices/storage. 

Just a thought.

[SDF_Specialist]

That's a great thought. Help an underprivileged CAP family so they have a place to live, but also can do what they do in CAP, and their civilian life. I just don't see it happening. First, it makes too much sense. Second, isn't the AF still a little standoffish of CAP?

[jimmydeanno]

the Air Force is trying to improve its housing image with families by getting the word out to married Air Force couples about the financial benefits of living on base, as well as working with developers to standardize the leasing process from base to base, Ferguson said.

Under the rules for traditional military housing, two airmen married to each other and living in an Air Force-owned house can't collect Basic Allowance for Housing.

When the housing is privatized, however, both airmen collect BAH, Ferguson said. The monthly rent payment is the equivalent of the highest ranking airman's BAH. The other airman gets to pocket his or her BAH payment.

We lived in base housing for two years, and liked it pretty well.  At the time though, it was not privatized and really didn't have any financial benefits.  The biggest benefit was that it was a secure, safe neighborhood that had people in the same circumstances - so the sense of community was greater.

It was a great place.  Townhouse, two bedroom, 1.5 bath, living room, dining room, large kitchen, single-car garage with a front, side and fenced in back yard.  There was even a nice screened patio to keep the bugs away.

But, we lived in the area for about three years.  The equivalent accommodations for rent, outside the fence were about $600/mo.  BAH (w/ dependent) was about $950/mo.  So, the apartment we lived in previously, we were pocketing about 175/mo after utilities were paid. 

That was one advantage to not living in base housing.

Had we purchased a similar town home, the going rate was around $130,000.  On a 20 year note at the time would be about $850 per month (including taxes).  But, we'd have been building equity. 

In the case above, they describe the benefits of living in base housing using a married military couple, which, in reality aren't overly common - certainly not enough to justify basing your "pros of military housing" on.

In that case, that couple has twice the amount of BAH to buy a home with.  In my current area, that would give that couple $2,400 per month just to pay for housing, on top of their base pay, BAS, bonuses, and other miscellaneous add-ons (flight pay, hazardous duty, etc).

They'd qualify for a $450,000 mortgage without anything down.  Why would you live in base housing?  Again, you're not gaining equity in anything.  Is the couple above using the pocketed cash for a down payment on a house?  It becomes even more obscene to live in base housing if that is the reason.

Also, I wonder where these unused housing units are.  Every base we've lived at has always had a 1 year + waiting list to get in.

[RiverAux]

Obviously whether this would even make sense would vary depending on local housing markets.  Probably would want to put a max number of years it would be available to CAP members for rent (with option for renewal) so that CAP people wouldn't clog it up forever if demand for base housing from AD increased. 

Can't really imagine many CAP people taking advantage of it, but might be a nice option to have on the table. 

[lordmonar]

CAP members can't even use the base facilities except for the Military Clothing Store.....I don't see them allowing CAP members renting base housing.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't see it happening.  Maybe pre-9/11, but not now, not as tight as security is on bases.

Also, as has been pointed out, our relationship with the AF is still chilly.

I could see the AF using them more for transient quarters for Guard and Reserve personnel training at a given AFB.

I am sure things are different now, but back in the '90s I used on-base facilities with CAP on training weekends.  I got a very nice VOQ with a big-screen TV for $8 per night once as a brand-new CAP second looie.

[RiverAux]

Also, as has been pointed out, our relationship with the AF is still chilly.

No evidence of that at all. 

[ZigZag911]

On McGuire AFB base housing is actually outside the main gate, in an area near but separated from base activities...perhaps this could work in similar settings.

[SarDragon]

Much of the base housing I lived in was outside the gate. This is particularly so here in San Diego.

WIWOAD, I usually benefited from living in base housing. My commute was shorter, and, given the differences between rent and BAH (usually a negative amount), vs. the BAH forfeiture in housing, I usually ended up with a bigger paycheck while living in housing.

[Airrace]

I think it's a good idea but don't see it ever happening!

[Spike]

Easy fix;

Kick out the contractors, make all Officers Major and Below live on Base, as well as NCO's with families.  Change the rule that lets them rent off Base.

I can not even believe that private corporations are running housing, and taking over NAVAL Dormitories.

How can contractors get on base, live in quarters and get tons more benefits than CAP?? 

Now, I lived in Government Quarters, had a nice house and view of an airfield.  I was 3 blocks from the O-Club, which made Friday and Saturday nights more enjoyable.  I got to know my neighbors, and it felt great.  How can I relate to the contractor and his family, who does not sacrifice the same as my family and I, living next door.  I would resent that family.  Cheap housing close to work......man, must be great to be an AF Contractor these days.   

[Gunner C]

WIWOAD on-base housing was available to some government civilians.  Overseas, government contractors, depending on if they were US citizens.  I think putting contractors in some of these unused billets would be a good idea - let their companies refund the govt for the expense.

[JayT]

Easy fix;

Kick out the contractors, make all Officers Major and Below live on Base, as well as NCO's with families.  Change the rule that lets them rent off Base.

I can not even believe that private corporations are running housing, and taking over NAVAL Dormitories.

How can contractors get on base, live in quarters and get tons more benefits than CAP?? 

Now, I lived in Government Quarters, had a nice house and view of an airfield.  I was 3 blocks from the O-Club, which made Friday and Saturday nights more enjoyable.  I got to know my neighbors, and it felt great.  How can I relate to the contractor and his family, who does not sacrifice the same as my family and I, living next door.  I would resent that family.  Cheap housing close to work......man, must be great to be an AF Contractor these days.

Aren't some contractors also Reservists? And aren't those contractors critical to operation of Air Force equipment? Don't many contractors get sent overseas for tech support?

If CAP shut down tomorrow, would the Air Force's overseas operations be compromised? If all of the contractors disappeared, would the Air Force be able to operate for extended periods of time?

[Spike]

Aren't some contractors also Reservists? And aren't those contractors critical to operation of Air Force equipment? Don't many contractors get sent overseas for tech support?

If CAP shut down tomorrow, would the Air Force's overseas operations be compromised? If all of the contractors disappeared, would the Air Force be able to operate for extended periods of time?

Yes.  Maybe.  Yes.  How does getting sent overseas play into this?  They get paid more money for going overseas, can pass up the assignment as well if they desired.  It is somewhat more difficult to say "I will not go to Iraq" when you still owe 3 years to the FED. 

If CAP shut down tomorrow, would the Air Force's overseas operations be compromised? If all of the contractors disappeared, would the Air Force be able to operate for extended periods of time?

Most likely not.  Most likely yes.  You are confusing overseas operations with on base operations.  The contractors in question are the base repairmen, cleaning crews, barbers, AAFES etc.

I think you missed the point of my argument.  Getting rid of Contractors and their families is DIFFERENT than getting them out of Quarters.  I said NOTHING about eliminating contractors form the military...did I?!?!

Also if you had read the article, Quarters are open up to reservists.  Since you said some reservists are contractors.....they would obviously be allowed to stay. 

Where did I confuse you?  I did not mean to make it out that Contractors should be eliminated altogether.  My wife works on contract for the AF.  I do think that military members should come first.  Military families should come first and the privilege in living on Base should only be for those two groups.  There was a time when it was "cool" to live on base, guess that is long gone.  I also think quarters that are on US Property should be owned by the Federal Government, and serviced by the FED.  If you Google, there are some Army Properties that are actually owned by subsidiaries of foreign companies.  That is not right in any way. 

Next we will be selling our roads to foreign investors!   

[JayT]

Aren't some contractors also Reservists? And aren't those contractors critical to operation of Air Force equipment? Don't many contractors get sent overseas for tech support?

If CAP shut down tomorrow, would the Air Force's overseas operations be compromised? If all of the contractors disappeared, would the Air Force be able to operate for extended periods of time?

Yes.  Maybe.  Yes.  How does getting sent overseas play into this?  They get paid more money for going overseas, can pass up the assignment as well if they desired.  It is somewhat more difficult to say "I will not go to Iraq" when you still owe 3 years to the FED. 

If CAP shut down tomorrow, would the Air Force's overseas operations be compromised? If all of the contractors disappeared, would the Air Force be able to operate for extended periods of time?

Most likely not.  Most likely yes.  You are confusing overseas operations with on base operations.  The contractors in question are the base repairmen, cleaning crews, barbers, AAFES etc.

I think you missed the point of my argument.  Getting rid of Contractors and their families is DIFFERENT than getting them out of Quarters.  I said NOTHING about eliminating contractors form the military...did I?!?!

Also if you had read the article, Quarters are open up to reservists.  Since you said some reservists are contractors.....they would obviously be allowed to stay. 

Where did I confuse you?  I did not mean to make it out that Contractors should be eliminated altogether.  My wife works on contract for the AF.  I do think that military members should come first.  Military families should come first and the privilege in living on Base should only be for those two groups.  There was a time when it was "cool" to live on base, guess that is long gone.  I also think quarters that are on US Property should be owned by the Federal Government, and serviced by the FED.  If you Google, there are some Army Properties that are actually owned by subsidiaries of foreign companies.  That is not right in any way. 

Next we will be selling our roads to foreign investors!

Oh, there was no confusion, but for you to dismiss contractors off the bat for housing that isn't being used by military families anyhow........

[Orville_third]

Can CAP Members taking USAF classes (or CAP classes on USAF bases) stay in USAF housing?

[SarDragon]

Quarters - yes, as in visitors billeting; housing - no. There are totally different assignment and control structures involved.