How many Airline Pilots do we have?

[flyguy06]

I often wondered how many CAP members we have that are currently flying for an air carrier?

[Thrashed]

I'll start the count:

"1"

B-777 FO

[JW]

I was furloughed in January.  I miss the paycheck, but not being away 17 days a month.

[Thrashed]

I was furloughed in January.  I miss the paycheck, but not being away 17 days a month.

Sorry to hear that.  I hope you get back soon.  I lost my captain's seat and I'm about to lose my FO seat on the 777.  I'll be back on the 737 again soon.  50% paycut in one year.  I know you took a 100% paycut.  It sucks all over.  I hope it turns around soon.

[MooneyMeyer]

I've been trying to get on with the regionals. I had a Great Lakes interview few months ago. A week after the interview they announced furloughs, needless to say, nobody from my interview class was offered a job. The only flying I'm doing now, other than in CAP and the occasional Saturday pancake breakfast fly-in with friends, is I have a side job ferrying aircraft for a few dealers around the country. It's a good way to log time, but its not a steady paycheck by any means. One of these days the economy will turn around and flying jobs will come back. I hope sooner than later. What I'd really like is to land a corporate gig, seems like most the airline guys I talk to really dislike the airline industry.

[flynd94]

Furloughed guy, who was lucky enough to find another airline job.  Currently a CA on the Mighty Beech 1900D for Lakes.

[flyguy06]

I've been trying to get on with the regionals. I had a Great Lakes interview few months ago. A week after the interview they announced furloughs, needless to say, nobody from my interview class was offered a job. The only flying I'm doing now, other than in CAP and the occasional Saturday pancake breakfast fly-in with friends, is I have a side job ferrying aircraft for a few dealers around the country. It's a good way to log time, but its not a steady paycheck by any means. One of these days the economy will turn around and flying jobs will come back. I hope sooner than later. What I'd really like is to land a corporate gig, seems like most the airline guys I talk to really dislike the airline industry.

Great Lakes furloughed? I was going to apply withthem as they seemed to be the only 121 operastion hiring. Now that is gone. Ohwell. Why dont you flight instruct? I do that but like you said its not steady income but its better than nothing and I like teaching too. Talking to airline friends of mine they all seem to think the industry wil bounce back in two to three years. Thats too long for me to wait. I need some good income soon

[Mustang]

Chalk up another trying to break into the regionals.  I'm about 30 hrs shy of Pt 135 IFR mins, and deperately in need of multi time, waiting like everyone else for the music to start up again.

[RiverAux]

I know of several former airline pilots and maybe 1 active airline pilot in my wing.  Certainly have more former military pilots. 

[DG]

Is it true that Great Lakes pays $16,000 per year to start, and tops out at $21,000 per year after 11 years?

[Gunner C]

Holy cow!  How does someone, especially a well qualified pilot, survive on that?!

[DC]

Holy cow!  How does someone, especially a well qualified pilot, survive on that?!

You have a second (or third) job. The FO on the Colgan Air plane that crashed in Buffalo earlier this year was a waitress when she wasn't flying, IIRC.

[heliodoc]

Why would 16K be a suprise to the flying public or even CAP??

It has been well known for YEARS!!!

Too bad CAP does not educate the newer folks about the TRUE costs and end results of spending sometimes 80K to well over 160K to sometimes include a 4 yr degree

This is where I teach the cadets what the true costs of aviation are and why would it be a surprise to anyone here??

Its REAL EASY to get an idea  why CAP is sought after  for "cheaper flight time."

CAP folks ought to be tuned in ALREADY of the 16K a year right seat pay after all that has been spent on flight training.  I make  it a point who I talk to the reall costs .....cadets and seniors.   Facts up front... in this business. 

And why would CAP not encorage flight training??  EAA does ..spell Young Eagles....etc

Amongst its many missions..... CAP zeroed in and around AVIATION whether many around here want to admit it or not

[flynd94]

Is it true that Great Lakes pays $16,000 per year to start, and tops out at $21,000 per year after 11 years?

Yes, its true.  Look at all the regional airlines and, you will find pay is terrible.  I am Xjet furlough and, we started out at $23/hr.  Also, remember we only get paid for flight time.  The day of the over paid airline pilot is a thing of the past.

As for Lakes pay, 16.21/hr first year FO pay and, its disgusting.  First year CA pay is 29.31/hr, a little better.  Most folks upgrade in 12-14 months.

One also has to know the history of our last contract.  We were in negotiations for 4+ years.  We had no support from our union (Teamsters).  We ended up going to arbitration in 2006, and the arbitrator's award was the exact contract management had offered (it was voted down 100%).  We are currently in negotiations again.  The big difference is, we have  new union, we are more pissed off.  You should see the openers we are set to send to the company.  This time around we have a more militant pilot group.  We also realize that improvements most be made but, the catch-22 is that the flying public is got to be willing to pay more for a ticket.

Sorry, for the rant, but I am involved with the union move at Lakes.  I am also trying to raise the bar for all those who work here in the future.

[c172drv]

Is it true that Great Lakes pays $16,000 per year to start, and tops out at $21,000 per year after 11 years?

Yes, its true.  Look at all the regional airlines and, you will find pay is terrible.  I am Xjet furlough and, we started out at $23/hr.  Also, remember we only get paid for flight time.  The day of the over paid airline pilot is a thing of the past.

As for Lakes pay, 16.21/hr first year FO pay and, its disgusting.  First year CA pay is 29.31/hr, a little better.  Most folks upgrade in 12-14 months.

One also has to know the history of our last contract.  We were in negotiations for 4+ years.  We had no support from our union (Teamsters).  We ended up going to arbitration in 2006, and the arbitrator's award was the exact contract management had offered (it was voted down 100%).  We are currently in negotiations again.  The big difference is, we have  new union, we are more pissed off.  You should see the openers we are set to send to the company.  This time around we have a more militant pilot group.  We also realize that improvements most be made but, the catch-22 is that the flying public is got to be willing to pay more for a ticket.

Sorry, for the rant, but I am involved with the union move at Lakes.  I am also trying to raise the bar for all those who work here in the future.

I will say that I'm lucky now.  I have been furloughed a total of 4 times.  Right now I'm flying an RJ for almost 4 years.  I count myself as lucky since my wife make the money and understands my adiction to flying.  She has been with me for 3 of the furloughes. 

As for the pay at Lakes.  That is totally sick.  I turned them down for Colgan and quickly got out of there.  Until the public is willing to accpet the true cost of flying we will never see pay equal to the responsibility.   I've been made sick by watching people sell their souls to get into a shiny jet.  We need to have more respect and work up to the jobs and don't get ahead of ourselves. 

[DG]

Holy cow!  How does someone, especially a well qualified pilot, survive on that?!

You have a second (or third) job. The FO on the Colgan Air plane that crashed in Buffalo earlier this year was a waitress when she wasn't flying, IIRC.

I hope she was a better waitress, than she was a pilot.

[DG]

Is it true that Great Lakes pays $16,000 per year to start, and tops out at $21,000 per year after 11 years?

Yes, its true.  Look at all the regional airlines and, you will find pay is terrible.  I am Xjet furlough and, we started out at $23/hr.  Also, remember we only get paid for flight time.  The day of the over paid airline pilot is a thing of the past.

As for Lakes pay, 16.21/hr first year FO pay and, its disgusting.  First year CA pay is 29.31/hr, a little better.  Most folks upgrade in 12-14 months.

One also has to know the history of our last contract.  We were in negotiations for 4+ years.  We had no support from our union (Teamsters).  We ended up going to arbitration in 2006, and the arbitrator's award was the exact contract management had offered (it was voted down 100%).  We are currently in negotiations again.  The big difference is, we have  new union, we are more pissed off.  You should see the openers we are set to send to the company.  This time around we have a more militant pilot group.  We also realize that improvements most be made but, the catch-22 is that the flying public is got to be willing to pay more for a ticket.

Sorry, for the rant, but I am involved with the union move at Lakes.  I am also trying to raise the bar for all those who work here in the future.

Something has got to be done to pay good pilots a much better wage.

[MooneyMeyer]

I just spent the day handing out resumes all over the Dallas / Fort Worth metroplex. I was basically rejected everywhere I went. There doesn't seem to be any pilot jobs out there at all. While it has been very discouraging I do my best to stay upbeat and positive. I attended one of the best flight schools in the country. I have 800 hours, 75 of which are multi-PIC. Would I have taken the Great Lakes job if they were hiring and offered it to me?  Yes. Does that make me the problem? Yes, probably. But what am I supposed to do? Moving up in aviation means flying bigger and shiner aircraft, thats not going to happen instructing in C-172s. It's a bad system all the way around. The airlines know we love to do what we do and are willing to do it for peanuts. If my wife didn't have a great, high paying job, I don't know how I'd be able to pursue a flying career. My 100k plus in student loans are in forbearance and if I don't find something soon, I'm going to have to become a banker or something. It's always been my dream to make a living as a pilot. I'm just wondering if that's even possible these days. I just refuse to quit trying.

[flynd94]

Holy cow!  How does someone, especially a well qualified pilot, survive on that?!

You have a second (or third) job. The FO on the Colgan Air plane that crashed in Buffalo earlier this year was a waitress when she wasn't flying, IIRC.

I hope she was a better waitress, than she was a pilot.

Ok, DG be prepared for a good ol' [Redacted] chewing.  It is really nice that you can sit in judgment of the pilots of Colgan 3407.  Did, they make mistakes, yes, do they deserve to be continuously thrown under the bus, NO!  Being a professional pilot, we understand that if something goes wrong, we will be blamed for it and, we won't be there to defend ourselves.

Second, your statement "Something has got to be done to pay good pilots a much better wage."  Are you stating that since I work at Great Lakes, I am not a "good" pilot?  I would love to stack my qualifications up against yours any day.  Come on whip it out, let's see what you don't have!!!! 

Your statements show how much of a little man you are, also, since you hide behind a screen name, you are in even a smaller man.  I suggest you go to her family and, make that statement or, are you only tough on the internet, hiding behind a screen name.

[DG]

Holy cow!  How does someone, especially a well qualified pilot, survive on that?!

You have a second (or third) job. The FO on the Colgan Air plane that crashed in Buffalo earlier this year was a waitress when she wasn't flying, IIRC.

I hope she was a better waitress, than she was a pilot.

Ok, DG be prepared for a good ol' [Redacted] chewing.  It is really nice that you can sit in judgment of the pilots of Colgan 3407.  Did, they make mistakes, yes, do they deserve to be continuously thrown under the bus, NO!  Being a professional pilot, we understand that if something goes wrong, we will be blamed for it and, we won't be there to defend ourselves.

Second, your statement "Something has got to be done to pay good pilots a much better wage."  Are you stating that since I work at Great Lakes, I am not a "good" pilot?  I would love to stack my qualifications up against yours any day.  Come on whip it out, let's see what you don't have!!!! 

Your statements show how much of a little man you are, also, since you hide behind a screen name, you are in even a smaller man.  I suggest you go to her family and, make that statement or, are you only tough on the internet, hiding behind a screen name.

So you think she was a good pilot?

I suggest you go back and read what now is in the public record.  Including the conclusions.  And including the proposed remedial efforts.

The pilots at the majors disagree with you.

But it is a new day, with young pilots today.