Flight size

[Dutchboy]

Can someone refresh my memory on the maximum size of a flight and of a element? For a element is it 7 or 8 as a miximum? for a flight is it 3 or 4 elements? (plus staff)

[DC]

AFMAN 36-2203 defines an element as "The basic formation; that is, the smallest drill unit comprised of at least 3, but usually 8 to 12 individuals, one of whom is designated the element leader."

And a flight as "At least two, but not more than four, elements."


That allows for anywhere from 8 to 50 cadets, but I would say that practical span of control issues would limit flight size to about 20 or so for CAP applications.

[NC Hokie]

AFMAN 36-2203 defines and element as "The basic formation; that is, the smallest drill unit comprised of at least 3, but usually 8 to 12 individuals, one of whom is designated the element leader."

And a flight as "At least two, but not more than four, elements."


That allows for anywhere from 8 to 50 cadets, but I would say that practical span of control issues would limit flight size to about 20 or so for CAP applications.

+1

The AFMAN definitions assume adult leadership with far more experience than the cadets we place in charge of elements and flights.  Until our cadets get that experience, it's probably best to limit span of control to the lower end of the scale.

[majdomke]

I have two flights, one with advanced cadets and one with newer cadets. Each flight has four elements with at least four members in each element.

[MIKE]

I would rather have a larger elements in a single flight.  Elements of three so you can have another flight is just sad.  IMO at least 8 per element with a designated Assistant Element Leader... essentially two "fire teams." And four elements is always better than two.  Don't think about a second flight until you have 12 per element.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I have two flights, one with advanced cadets and one with newer cadets. Each flight has four elements with at least four members in each element.

That is pretty much how we do stuff at Martinsburg. We have a flight that drills with the Advanced Cadets (I'm in this one).

Then we have a Flight for New Cadets or Cadets that cannot Drill yet. Encampment helped me learn drill though!

[majdomke]

I would rather have a larger elements in a single flight.  Elements of three so you can have another flight is just sad.  IMO at least 8 per element with a designated Assistant Element Leader... essentially two "fire teams." And four elements is always better than two.  Don't think about a second flight until you have 12 per element.

So, just for the sake of argument, you would have up to 48 cadets in one flight, all with different levels of experience and abilities? It's different in the real military, those guys all start together and train together from the beginning. We get cadets trickling in all year long. If you ask me, putting new cadets in with very experienced cadets is asking for quitters. Putting them in their own flight and then having the experienced cadets act as mentors works better. I only speak from my own experience so not every squadron is the same. When I took over as DCC two years ago, or CDc to make Eclipse happy, we had an average of 8 cadets showing up every week. We now have more than 24 cadets showing up each week, are on our Great Start for Cadets #4 and have around 70-80% retention. Great Start has a lot to do with that, plus having active adults in the program and weeding out those who don't want to attend.

[lordmonar]

AFMAN 36-2203 defines and element as "The basic formation; that is, the smallest drill unit comprised of at least 3, but usually 8 to 12 individuals, one of whom is designated the element leader."

And a flight as "At least two, but not more than four, elements."


That allows for anywhere from 8 to 50 cadets, but I would say that practical span of control issues would limit flight size to about 20 or so for CAP applications.

+1

The AFMAN definitions assume adult leadership with far more experience than the cadets we place in charge of elements and flights.  Until our cadets get that experience, it's probably best to limit span of control to the lower end of the scale.

+1

Also back in the day (It was a Wednesday) we had the rule of thumb that you could not have a "square" formation.

That is you had to have at least 3 in an element and you could not have a 3X3 or 4X4 flight.

So you had to have at least six people marching before you could break into a 2X3 flight and then you had to wait until you had at least 12 befor you could break off into a 3X4 flight.

This was not supported by USAF regulations (50-14) but it what we were taught in basic and tech school.

For span of control ICS uses the 1 on 5 rule.  So to carry that over you should have elements of 6 (five plus the element leader) and a flight no larger then 27 (4 elements+1 guide, flight sgt and flight commander).

For our cadets this should work out very well.  A young cadet can easily take care of five subordinates no problem.  The flight CC has six guys to look after but he has the flight sgt to help him out.  The guide should act as the assitant flight sgt.