California Wing UDF team w/lights and sirens

calguy · July 28, 2009, 06:09:45 AM

California Wing is out of control. Another UDF team crusing with flashing strobe lights and code 3 police escorts. Read the artical.

Port of Long Beach UDF

At 1900 26 July two UDF Teams were dispatched directly to the coordinates provided by a CAP aircraft of a 121.5 ELT In the Long Beach Harbor Area. At the Port of Long Beach we picked up sweeps right away. In the confusion of navigating all of the twists and turns of the piers and storage yards, we were grateful to be intercepted by the Harbor Patrol. Two Harbor Patrol vehicles escorted us back to our first location where we met up with their Sergeant.

Now all five vehicles with strobe lights flashing away are clustered in a big pile right in the middle of the main exit from Pier G. Now we all head out to the adjacent pier with a Police escort, lights and sirens ablaze twisting and turning through a maze of thousands of storage containers stacked several high as far as you can see. After several minutes wandering this giant mouse maze, we finally end up on foot to zero in on a stack of containers four stories tall.

By now we have piqued the interest of the employees at this yard and have several more vehicles with flashing lights around us. The shipping yard brought over a huge boom lift for us to scan the higher containers for the best signal, while at the same time they are checking the manifests of these containers for clues. At the exact time we were getting very strong sweeps on one particular container, the news came back that this container was filled with parts from an aircraft company and was heading to Australia soon.

Congratulation on their First Finds for Christopher Cesena from SQ29 and Robert Harris from SQ 45 who joined Ken Benner, Michael Benner, and Bob Miller for this evenings hunt!

If this sounds like fun, contact 1Lt Benner to get started!!

SarDragon · July 28, 2009, 07:02:31 AM

Well, the last time I saw Bob Miller's vehicle, he did not have any flashing lights attached. They would probably get in the way of the "box kite". Don't know about any of the other CAP folks mentioned.

OBTW, what's the source for this "article"?

[edit] Never mind, found it.

jeders · July 28, 2009, 02:09:56 PM

Here's my question, how is California Wing out of control? Aren't flashing lights one of the required safety items on corporate vehicles? As far as the Harbor Patrol using sirens, that's their thing and doesn't mean that CAWG is out of control.

Now that I think about it, they should have gone to the harbor patrol or police before they started cruising around the harbor like that. Out here in West Texas, unless it's on an airport, or we just happen to get a signal while driving through downtown, we don't go anywhere without at least notifying the police/sherrif/DPS. We do this for several reasons, not the least of which is to keep us from getting shot by a rancher or drug lord.

flynd94 · July 28, 2009, 02:17:47 PM

Calguy give it a rest. Your contempt for everything CAWG is amazing. I read the article and, don't see where they are "out of control". We are our worst enemies sometimes.

Flying Pig · July 28, 2009, 02:44:57 PM

What the Harbor Police do is their business, however, I find it odd that they chose to cruise the pier with their sirens on. That would get pretty annoying after about.....20 seconds.

calguy · July 28, 2009, 02:49:03 PM

The lights and sirens have been going on for years and has landed more than a few CAP members receiving citations over the years. Not only lights and sirens but guns too. The Wing is out of control when the Wing or CAP or CHP prohibits such activity. The Wing has a no "light bar" policy, the Wing CC just decides not to enforce it. It makes the rest of us look bad in the eyes of other SAR teams and law enforcement. Wonder why we are not taken seriously? BTW, this mission was opened for a distress beacon near Ramona. The word is that it was coming from an aircraft that crashed the previous day and the pilot layed dazed next to his aircraft waiting for help. All during that time, the local group was running a SAREX and never looked for the ELT eventhough they knew it was going. A CAP pilot in his own aircraft on his way home heard the signal and guilded the Sheriff to the crash site. Sad! Fun flights take priority!

calguy · July 28, 2009, 02:52:06 PM

Odd! I agree. But CAP is not authorized to convoy or operate code 3. Nor are we allowed in CAWG to marshall non CAP or member owned aircraft but last week the GA8 Airvan was damaged when a CAP member marshalled a private non-CAP aircraft too close to it and caused damage to the Airvan. I agree...We are our own worse enemy!

wuzafuzz · July 28, 2009, 02:59:47 PM

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
The lights and sirens have been going on for years and has landed more than a few CAP members receiving citations over the years. Not only lights and sirens but guns too. The Wing is out of control when the Wing or CAP or CHP prohibits such activity. The Wing has a no "light bar" policy, the Wing CC just decides not to enforce it. It makes the rest of us look bad in the eyes of other SAR teams and law enforcement. Wonder why we are not taken seriously? BTW, this mission was opened for a distress beacon near Ramona. The word is that it was coming from an aircraft that crashed the previous day and the pilot layed dazed next to his aircraft waiting for help. All during that time, the local group was running a SAREX and never looked for the ELT eventhough they knew it was going. A CAP pilot in his own aircraft on his way home heard the signal and guilded the Sheriff to the crash site. Sad! Fun flights take priority!

I have a hard time buying that a SAREX would ignore an ELT, just to have other fun. Granted I wasn't there. Were you? If you were, what action did you take to remedy the situation? If you are judging from afar, how do you verify the information you are presenting as fact?

Pylon · July 28, 2009, 03:01:09 PM

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:52:06 PM
Odd! I agree. But CAP is not authorized to convoy or operate code 3.

Did you read the article? CAP was not operating "code 3". The Harbor Patrol may have, though even the original account you posted seems to me a bit "hyped" and overly enthusiastic. If a LEO vehicle escorts a CAP UDF or Ground Team, CAP policies on lightbars or whatever don't apply to them. Don't get the two confused.

Do I think we need LEO escorts with lights and sirens and whatnot? Not usually. 99% of the time it would probably be un-needed. But I imagine there are rare circumstances wherein local law enforcement might support a CAP ground or UDF team with an escort, but again -- they play by their rules, not CAP's.

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:52:06 PMNor are we allowed in CAWG to marshall non CAP or member owned aircraft but last week the GA8 Airvan was damaged when a CAP member marshalled a private non-CAP aircraft too close to it and caused damage to the Airvan. I agree...We are our own worse enemy!

Ground incidents with aircraft are (unfortunately) not unique to CAWG. It doesn't signal CAWG is particularly "out of control". Put it in context with similar ground incursions and aircraft incidents that happen regularly in dozens of Wings across CAP, every year, and it doesn't seem too "wild n' crazy" anymore, does it?

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
BTW, this mission was opened for a distress beacon near Ramona. The word is that it was coming from an aircraft that crashed the previous day and the pilot layed dazed next to his aircraft waiting for help. All during that time, the local group was running a SAREX and never looked for the ELT eventhough they knew it was going. A CAP pilot in his own aircraft on his way home heard the signal and guilded the Sheriff to the crash site. Sad! Fun flights take priority!

And this statement here inches dangerously close to our standing Membership Code of Conduct policy on the forum. Accusatory statements and the like are not appreciated. This isn't the IG's office and this isn't the place to point out fires in other people's backyards; CAPTalk is intended as a professional resource for CAP members - not the rumor mill or office water cooler. Keep that in mind.

JohnKachenmeister · July 28, 2009, 03:14:05 PM

So... how do they hear the audible ELT signal if they have sirens on?

Flying Pig · July 28, 2009, 03:19:20 PM

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
The lights and sirens have been going on for years and has landed more than a few CAP members receiving citations over the years. Not only lights and sirens but guns too. The Wing is out of control when the Wing or CAP or CHP prohibits such activity. The Wing has a no "light bar" policy, the Wing CC just decides not to enforce it. It makes the rest of us look bad in the eyes of other SAR teams and law enforcement. Wonder why we are not taken seriously? BTW, this mission was opened for a distress beacon near Ramona. The word is that it was coming from an aircraft that crashed the previous day and the pilot layed dazed next to his aircraft waiting for help. All during that time, the local group was running a SAREX and never looked for the ELT eventhough they knew it was going. A CAP pilot in his own aircraft on his way home heard the signal and guilded the Sheriff to the crash site. Sad! Fun flights take priority!

OK, so did he get found? If you think CAP is out of control, you should see some if the volunteer SAR people I have worked with. Great people.....but they have more yellow lights on their tricked out 4x4's than I do. I havnt heard anything about people getting nailed for carrying guns either. From the original article you posted, it sounds like some members had a great time and completed the mission.

If you'd like I can call SDSO Air Support and talk to them and clear up any rumors about the "dazed" pilot.

lordmonar · July 28, 2009, 04:12:56 PM

From my read of the article......it does not sound like the CAP vehicles had lights and sires...but the harbor patro was the one doing all the lights and sounds.

Also....you can add that the article may be spicing up the actual situation a bit for drama's sake.

Eclipse · July 28, 2009, 04:19:02 PM

Harbor patrol, police escorts, a mass of strobes and sirens, support of a crane operator.

Sounds pretty awesome to me, and like a white paper on inter-agency cooperation.

As noted, nowhere does it say CAP used sirens, and strobes or revolving lights are pretty standard on a lot of corporate and personal vehicles (within reason and the law).

As soon as you saw the line about the police escort, your opinion about their operation goes out the window because whatever they may have done was obviously sanctioned by local PD.

You're reaching for an excuse to throw CAWG under the bus. Why?

flynd94 · July 28, 2009, 05:54:44 PM

Bob,

He is a well known malcontent in CAWG, who got spanked for not playing well with others and, now his mission is to discredit the hard work folks do in CAWG.

Flying Pig · July 28, 2009, 09:07:25 PM

Does anyone have any more info on this pilot who was left to die? Im going to call SDSO and fin out what happened, but would like to have some details......if in fact it actually happened.

Bueller...Bueller...Bueller (for you older members)

Larry Mangum · July 28, 2009, 10:05:38 PM

Quote from: calguy on July 28, 2009, 02:49:03 PM
The lights and sirens have been going on for years and has landed more than a few CAP members receiving citations over the years. Not only lights and sirens but guns too. The Wing is out of control when the Wing or CAP or CHP prohibits such activity. The Wing has a no "light bar" policy, the Wing CC just decides not to enforce it. It makes the rest of us look bad in the eyes of other SAR teams and law enforcement. Wonder why we are not taken seriously? BTW, this mission was opened for a distress beacon near Ramona. The word is that it was coming from an aircraft that crashed the previous day and the pilot layed dazed next to his aircraft waiting for help. All during that time, the local group was running a SAREX and never looked for the ELT eventhough they knew it was going. A CAP pilot in his own aircraft on his way home heard the signal and guilded the Sheriff to the crash site. Sad! Fun flights take priority!

Interesting that a search of local news event does not mention any airplane crashes near Ramona in the time period he provides in his initial post. There was a plane crash at Romona in early May where a home built with 2 people on board crashed while performing acrobatics, but both died on impact after the wing came off in flight.

Flying Pig · July 28, 2009, 10:09:19 PM

I emailed a pilot I know who flies for ASTREA. SDSO's Air Unit. I would imagine it will be fresh in his mind if it occurred.
I am pretty curious about the members getting busted with guns. Not to dredge up another topic, but this is why I like REAL names attached to posts.

Larry Mangum · July 28, 2009, 10:16:55 PM

WMIRS, does show a mission for a 406 Beacon on Ramona being secured on July 15th, but notihng about a crash.

RiverAux · July 28, 2009, 10:31:51 PM

Just because an ELT is going off doesn't mean that we get to chase it. We have to be tasked by someone to do so.

Seems to me that it is a very wise precaution to have lots of lights and sirens around you while driving around in a port with all sorts of heavy equipment being operated around you. Seems like a wise safety precaution.

MikeD · July 29, 2009, 01:51:20 AM

Quote from: Pylon on July 28, 2009, 03:01:09 PM

<snip>
Do I think we need LEO escorts with lights and sirens and whatnot? Not usually. 99% of the time it would probably be un-needed. But I imagine there are rare circumstances wherein local law enforcement might support a CAP ground or UDF team with an escort, but again -- they play by their rules, not CAP's.
<snip>

In some of the areas where my and a neighboring squadron operate, a police escort and possibly a SWAT team would be a welcome addition.

In all serious, there are some areas where it might be dangerous for us to operate, particularly so if some of our "other" tasked missions were known. The CC of another area squadron had magnetic signs made up that say "Search and Rescue" in both English and Spanish, I want to get a set for my squadron as well. There are some things we need to start thinking about before we run into a major issue...