Primary Training in a Cessna T182T NAVIII

[Jerry Jacobs]

Hey all,

I just want a second opinion on this.  I recently got back from NFA in Nebraska and got to solo and all that cool stuff in a Cessna 172P.  I have been looking into continuing my flight training in Corporate aircraft.  The problem being that the corporate aircraft surronding me are mostly Cessna T182T's equipped with the G1000.

I have been told that it is not desirable to continue my flight training in these and instead should look into joining a flying club or using a FBO.  Opinions? Thoughts?

Thanks,


Jerry Jacobs

[c172drv]

You'd be very busy and have a lot to deal with trying to learn in that.  I'd have to agree that some training in a more basic airframe would be good.

[flynd94]

A C182 is a whole alot of airplane to be using in primary training.  You have much more to worry about (cowl flaps,  prop rpm) and, then you through in the G1000 package, yikes.  Go to your local FBO, fly a steam gauge trainer.  You will be better off for doing so.

I could go into a long diatribe about how I believe all training (Pvt, Inst, Comm) should be done in a steam gauge aircraft but, that's a dead horse that has been beaten already.

[RiverAux]

It was my understanding that many flight schools were going to all g1000s and that new aircraft were generally being made with that sort of equipment.  If that is true, you might as well learn in the g1000. 

I guess what matters is what type of aircraft you eventually want to be flying in. 

[heliodoc]

PM me about some folks in NE to talk to get on G1000 train

Here where I am at now....it sure leaves ALOT to be desired for "CAP G1000 training"

NE has a fairly good syllabus to follow... whereas my current location seems to think it is some kind of secret after the "GOB's" got the free training (approx 6500-7K ) and not much return for the for folks who want to continue

FBO's with glass plan on 145/HR (+-) and another 45 to 60 for the instructor....

Can be done in NE.  Plan on the time and a phone call.  Some are in LNK and some are in Kearney, NE

[Thom]

It was my understanding that many flight schools were going to all g1000s and that new aircraft were generally being made with that sort of equipment.  If that is true, you might as well learn in the g1000. 

I guess what matters is what type of aircraft you eventually want to be flying in.

Actually, I just had a conversation with another CAP member last night whose day job is working for the FAA.  We were discussing the tendency to train people ab initio in Glass Cockpits, and how many flight schools seem to be going that route.

I brought up the issue, that once these pilots get their ticket, they will be reduced to renting from the normal rental fleet.  I'd bet that, outside of those same flight schools, better than 95% of the rental fleet in the US is Steam Gauges only.  Possibly with a Garmin GNS type GPS, but all the Flight Instruments will be Steam Gauges.

Has anyone done any studies on how to retrain from Glass to Steam?  All the training we could come up with last night was geared around taking existing Steam-trained pilots and bringing them up to speed on Glass.

I have to believe that going from a fully-integrated Glass environment to the disparate Steam Gauges of the more traditional cockpit layout has to be a bit of an adjustment.

Does anyone else have any information on this 'regressive' training and how difficult it might be?

Thom Hamilton

[flynd94]

It was my understanding that many flight schools were going to all g1000s and that new aircraft were generally being made with that sort of equipment.  If that is true, you might as well learn in the g1000. 

I guess what matters is what type of aircraft you eventually want to be flying in.

Actually, I just had a conversation with another CAP member last night whose day job is working for the FAA.  We were discussing the tendency to train people ab initio in Glass Cockpits, and how many flight schools seem to be going that route.

I brought up the issue, that once these pilots get their ticket, they will be reduced to renting from the normal rental fleet.  I'd bet that, outside of those same flight schools, better than 95% of the rental fleet in the US is Steam Gauges only.  Possibly with a Garmin GNS type GPS, but all the Flight Instruments will be Steam Gauges.

Has anyone done any studies on how to retrain from Glass to Steam?  All the training we could come up with last night was geared around taking existing Steam-trained pilots and bringing them up to speed on Glass.

I have to believe that going from a fully-integrated Glass environment to the disparate Steam Gauges of the more traditional cockpit layout has to be a bit of an adjustment.

Does anyone else have any information on this 'regressive' training and how difficult it might be?

Thom Hamilton

My only experience was dealing with folks in the part 135 freight world.  We were all steam gauge and, we had many new hire pilots who flew nothing but glass.  Compared to other new hires it took longer to get them online.  A few of the problems were lack of scan, lack of the ability interpret the instruments (SA), no idea what an NDB approach was and, finally over reliance on a moving map.  Generally, these pilots took a little longer to get up to speed to pass their 135 check ride.

I am firm believer in learning in the steam, then making the transition to glass.

[CASH172]

It was my understanding that many flight schools were going to all g1000s and that new aircraft were generally being made with that sort of equipment.  If that is true, you might as well learn in the g1000. 

I guess what matters is what type of aircraft you eventually want to be flying in.

Actually, I just had a conversation with another CAP member last night whose day job is working for the FAA.  We were discussing the tendency to train people ab initio in Glass Cockpits, and how many flight schools seem to be going that route.

I brought up the issue, that once these pilots get their ticket, they will be reduced to renting from the normal rental fleet.  I'd bet that, outside of those same flight schools, better than 95% of the rental fleet in the US is Steam Gauges only.  Possibly with a Garmin GNS type GPS, but all the Flight Instruments will be Steam Gauges.

Has anyone done any studies on how to retrain from Glass to Steam?  All the training we could come up with last night was geared around taking existing Steam-trained pilots and bringing them up to speed on Glass.

I have to believe that going from a fully-integrated Glass environment to the disparate Steam Gauges of the more traditional cockpit layout has to be a bit of an adjustment.

Does anyone else have any information on this 'regressive' training and how difficult it might be?

Thom Hamilton

Embry-Riddle utilizes an all C172 G1000 fleet for primary training.  Our complex traininer is still a steam gauge but generally the students do not have a major problem transitioning.  Most of the students take the instrument course where instrument failures force heavy reliance on the back-up instruments. 

One of my professors said some research done said glass to steam pilots had harder times transitioning, but I have no idea where his source was from. 

However, the trend of glass trained pilots is to focus 90% inside and 10% outside for VFR instead of the other way around.  This sometimes transfers over to the steam gauges.  The G1000 can still be used primary training, but my trick is to completely dim the PFD so they're forced to utilize the horizon.  Kinda takes away from the $70,000 avionics package, but whatever it takes to learn. 

[Jerry Jacobs]

Ok thanks to all for all your valuable input regarding this topic!  Basically my next course of action will be to join a flying club and go about my training in a C152 or C172.  Any idea on about how many hours I'll need until I can begin training in a  in the CT182T w/ G1000?

[Robborsari]

A C182 is a whole alot of airplane to be using in primary training.  You have much more to worry about (cowl flaps,  prop rpm) and, then you through in the G1000 package, yikes.  Go to your local FBO, fly a steam gauge trainer.  You will be better off for doing so.

I could go into a long diatribe about how I believe all training (Pvt, Inst, Comm) should be done in a steam gauge aircraft but, that's a dead horse that has been beaten already.

Perhaps we should use our "clout" as the largest fleet operator and ask cessna to provide a 6-pack display mode for the G1000

[scooter]

Glass to steam: My experience as a sim instructor is the transition can be very hard for some. They have no SA without the map in front of them for position reference. They cannot look at an approach plate and put their finger on the page to show where they are on the plate as they approach the course or which way they are going. It takes a lot of time to teach this to some. They would have been better off staying in glass and saving the money.