Shared save credit

[RiverAux]

I have noticed that AFRCC appears to have made a habit of assigning save credit to multiple wings on missing aircraft missions.  It seems that if a save results from one of these missions that they are giving credit to all the wings involved.  I know my wing got shared save credit this way not all that long ago even though the plane was found in another state. 

This just doesn't seem right to me.  You could argue that even though one Wing might not have found the plane, they were participating in the search and helped narrow down the search area so that the plane could eventually be found in another Wing.  But to me that just seems like those silly participation trophies they give out in kids sports today. 

Of course there are certain situations where shared save credit is totally appropriate.  For example, if the aircrew or ground team was made up of members of multiple wings or if the find was made by an aircrew from one wing and the person brought out by a ground team from another.  Or, if the radar whiz kid from CO figured out where to tell an aircrew from FL to look for a missing aircraft.   

As a practical matter who the AFRCC credits with a save has little real consequence and its not like I'm horribly offended by the practice, but it could have some minor negatives associated with it though.  Say you're lobbying one of your state agencies and give them an annual report showing you had a couple of saves in the wing last year.  They might ask you about those and you have to hem and haw about how your wing didn't actually find and save anybody leading them to ask themselves what sort of poser would try to claim credit for something like that. 

Is it just me (and I often realize that it is)?

[Gunner C]

If command and control was done to USAF standards, then one of two things would happen:

1.  The wing that was originally given the mission would receive support from other wings.  It would still be the original wing's mission.

or

2.  The region would take over the mission when it crosses wing borders.  Then the region would receive credit for the find.  Of course, if it crosses region boundaries, then it becomes strange - would probably be a combination of #1 and #2.  Regions should IMO provide C² when a mission involves two or more wings.  (It'll never happen).  The region CC would have the ability and authority to move assets across state lines.

[_]

It is the entire search that leads to a find or save.  Save and find credit should be shared amongst all those taking part.  In most cases of a find in a search, the teams and aircrews that did not make the actual find put no less effort into the search.  Being the team or aircrew with the find is often a matter of chance.

The search is what finds or saves the people, not an individual group.  Credit should be shared.

[RiverAux]

2.  The region would take over the mission when it crosses wing borders.  Then the region would receive credit for the find.  Of course, if it crosses region boundaries, then it becomes strange - would probably be a combination of #1 and #2.  Regions should IMO provide C² when a mission involves two or more wings.  (It'll never happen).  The region CC would have the ability and authority to move assets across state lines.

And the reason that it won't happen is that Regions are not operational units, nor could they be in any real sense.  Its not like there is a physical CAP region headquarters manned by a large staff that could actually run a mission (Heck you could have a region staff without a single Incident Commander on it).  With region staff members dispersed across multiple states they just couldn't function in this fashion which apparently is one of the reasons CAP is dropping the whole C4 concept as unworkable. 

[lordmonar]

A SAR is a group effort.

If four wings respond to a cross border search then all four wings should share credit.

Everyone is doing their jobs.  Your wing searched those grids in your state while the other wings searched their grids.  Luck put it in the other state but you were part of the search and should be rewarded.

On that note....it is not like everyone on the search gets a ribbon or something.  Only the team that actually made the find gets that. 

So this is really an academic argument about how many finds your wing gets to claim at the end of the year.

[RiverAux]

So this is really an academic argument about how many finds your wing gets to claim at the end of the year.

Yep. 

[RADIOMAN015]

And the reason that it won't happen is that Regions are not operational units, nor could they be in any real sense.  Its not like there is a physical CAP region headquarters manned by a large staff that could actually run a mission (Heck you could have a region staff without a single Incident Commander on it).  With region staff members dispersed across multiple states they just couldn't function in this fashion which apparently is one of the reasons CAP is dropping the whole C4 concept as unworkable.

Could you explain a bit more about the C4 concept.  I've heard of Command, Control, & Communications, wondering with the 4th C is?  So what this will basically mean is that Wing Commander and/or their alert officer after calls from AFRCC will run the entire operation with no regional level involvement?   Also I would assume that if other wing (states) are need in an expanded mission that the original wing's IC remains as such or does this change?
RM   

[RiverAux]

Three C4s were established several years ago around the country to basically help route CAP resources into a major disaster area from other states.  Can't remember what each C stood for in this case, but it doesn't matter since they're gone. 

From what I understand CAP will continue to run multi-state missions like we always have -- each Wing will have a command post and will coordinate with the other Wings on mission strategy and the NOC will handle requests for resources and the like.  This is a perfectly acceptable approach under ICS which does allow for a single incident to be divied into separate command structures in certain situations. 

[PHall]

The fourth C is for Computers!

C4 stands for Command, Control, Communications and Computers.

The "Computer" part probably should be IT, but C3IT looks like you're writing in Russian.