Interested in joing (with lots of questions)

[JasonFMX]

Hello all,

I discovered the CAP several months ago and have been interested in joining. I have found a local squadron but have not attended any meetings yet.

I have some questions I would like answered to see if the CAP is something that I truly am interested in. The reasons I am saying this is because the CAP website, while nice, really tells you nothing. At least, not the things I'm looking for.

I don't expect folks to just answer all of these but if we can chip away at them that will be fine.

1. I am 28 years old. I suppose I would join as a senior member, correct?

2. What rank would I start out at? How does one progress in rank?

3. Are these specific jobs?

4. What kind of training is there? If so, is there any PT? ...or job training?

5. What kind of benefits are there to learn how to fly? I am very interested in becoming a pilot and am slowly requiring all things needed in order to do so. Money is a major problem, its very expensive, is there any training through the CAP? I know the website says no, but I keep seeing things from members who have said they have, or at least received a benefit of some sort.

6. Are uniforms required at all times? Grooming standards?

That's all I can think of at this moment.

[SarDragon]

Hello all,

I discovered the CAP several months ago and have been interested in joining. I have found a local squadron but have not attended any meetings yet.

I have some questions I would like answered to see if the CAP is something that I truly am interested in. The reasons I am saying this is because the CAP website, while nice, really tells you nothing. At least, not the things I'm looking for.

I don't expect folks to just answer all of these but if we can chip away at them that will be fine.

1. I am 28 years old. I suppose I would join as a senior member, correct?

Yes.

2. What rank would I start out at?

Senior Member without Grade. You can normally get your first promotion after you've been a member 6 months.

How does one progress in rank?

By completing the established requirements, which vary from grade to grade.

3. Are these specific jobs?

Yes, there are squadron staff positions, and Emergency Services specialties. You either do one or both. Both is better.

4. What kind of training is there?

All kinds - in content, including both categories above, and in form - self-paced, classroom, and online

If so, is there any PT?

Nothing formal for senior members, but you can certainly participate alongside the cadets, or build your own program.

...or job training?

See above.

5. What kind of benefits are there to learn how to fly?

You have to already have your private pilot certificate before you can get any "free flying" in CAP.

I am very interested in becoming a pilot and am slowly requiring all things needed in order to do so. Money is a major problem, its very expensive, is there any training through the CAP?

Not until after you have your private pilot certificate.

I know the website says no, but I keep seeing things from members who have said they have, or at least received a benefit of some sort.

See above. Flying in CAP is related to performing the missions. "Flight training" is oriented toward that end - performing the missions.

6. Are uniforms required at all times?

Usually. That will depend on the type of unit you're in. It is almost always required around the cadets.

Grooming standards?

Yes, with certain exceptions. If you,don't meet the standards set forth to wear the AF-style uniform, then you have to wear a corporate uniform of one sort or another.

The best way to get really informative answers is to attend a meeting or two, and test the waters.

[Always Ready]

Dangit SarDragon you posted just before I finished typing my reply...oh well.

Jason, Welcome to CAPTalk! +1 on everything SarDragon said.

To get more specific on the training, to me, there are three main types of training that you can do in CAP: mandatory, operations, and professional development.

The mandatory training is generally easy and focus on common sense or common occurrence stuff (safety mostly). Some of it is done online, some of it is classroom oriented, and other times it will be one-on-one with your commander.

The operational training focuses on search and rescue, disaster relief, radio communications, and other operational missions that we have. It is completely optional. Some people are really into it, others aren't. This is a lot of classroom and hands-on field training. It's usually a lot of fun.

Professional development training focuses on you being able to do your job in CAP and helping you develop leadership skills. This is the type of training you need to focus on if you are wanting to promote. It is mostly on-the-job and classroom training, with a few distance learning courses thrown in for good measure.

Since you don't have your pilots license yet, you can still get to fly in the airplane. Look up "Mission Scanner". You get to sit in the backseat, search for targets (missing people, aircraft, etc.), perform aerial photography, as well as other things. It's also requirement for all of those who want to be a pilot in CAP. After a while, you can get training as Mission Observer, or if you get your pilots license, get trained as a Mission Pilot.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[RiverAux]

You should attend at least three squadron meetings and talk to everybody you can to get a feeling for what is going on in that unit.  Every unit tends to focus on slightly different aspects of the CAP program and some units are more active than others. 

[arajca]

While you cannot get flight instruction to your PPL, you can meet and contact quaified flight instructors in CAP. You MIGHT be able to work out a deal. I know a member who was a general contractor who traded his labor to build a garage for an instructor. He paid for the a/c, she paid for the materials for the garage - basically a labor swap.

[Major Lord]

As a CAP member, you will be eligible to join  base aero-clubs, where you can get significant discounts on ship rental and instructor time. Its not a lot cheaper, but better than the proverbial sharp stick in the eye. One of our active duty A1C's was able to get his license this way, and they don't make a heck of a lot of spare money.

Major Lord

[JasonFMX]

Wow, fantastic answers everyone...fast too.  lol  I was half expecting to come back and not see any replies.

[Major Lord]

Oh, the one thing you don't have to worry about here is a lack of information or opinions!

Major Lord

[JasonFMX]

Outstanding,

Being that's the case...please feel totally free to volunteer any information or opinions in elaboration to the questions I already asked. I mean, they are answered to my satisfaction, but you can always expand.

For instance, as far function and jobs of the squadron. Is each squadron different as to what jobs it has? Could you please name some of these jobs? What kind of and how long is the training? Where does training take place? Do you train at home area with your squadron? or is there out of area training, like going to schools in the military?

I have soooo many questions. And I would gladly do my own research and find my own answers. However, unlike standard military functions, CAP info is hard to find. I didn't even know it existed up until a few months ago.

Oh, also, is there a physical that has to be taken? (sorry if thats been asked or answered already) If there is I can't imagine you'd have to go to MEPS do you?

Some more questions, being that technically the CAP is USAF auxiliary, can you put down that your serving the US armed forces on resumes / job applications and such?  My common sense actually sways me on this. One way I say no because its civilian volunteer...however, it is working with the AF, so... I don't know.

I understand this doesn't function as 'hardcore' as the standard military, but exactly how strict is it? Is saluting of superior officers required at all times? Is everyone required to call each other by rank and last name? 

I would just go to a meeting and find this stuff out, but from the website, it says they only meet once a month at the end of the month, ...so I guess I have some time to kill.

Thanks for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

[notaNCO forever]

Some jobs most squadrons have are public affairs office, emergency services officer, logistics officer, administration officer, cadet programs officer, and aerospace officer. Their is plenty more, I know their is a regulation stating them those ones are just of the top of my head.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hello all,

I discovered the CAP several months ago and have been interested in joining. I have found a local squadron but have not attended any meetings yet.

I have some questions I would like answered to see if the CAP is something that I truly am interested in. The reasons I am saying this is because the CAP website, while nice, really tells you nothing. At least, not the things I'm looking for.

I

I'd suggest primarily that you visit some local squadrons (units) in your area.  It's relatively easy to find them by just going to the CAP website  http://cap.findlocation.com/ & input your zip code.  Each (unit) will have strengths & weaknesses.

Also I'd like to point out that CAP membership is a two way street.  Most units have little interest in senior members that just want to join so they can get their private pilots license.  You will be expected to contribute to the unit's aerospace, cadet, & emergency services programs.

Many units run an informal interview process, with various staff members talking with the potential applicant to see "where his/her head is" so to speak.  You will also have to be fingerprinted & the FBI will screen your prints & check for any criminal records. (So full disclosure on your application is necessary).

Last but not least.  Remember that CAP also stands for Come And Pay!!!   Very little is provided free to senior members in the organization.   
RM     

[Pylon]

For instance, as far function and jobs of the squadron. Is each squadron different as to what jobs it has? Could you please name some of these jobs? What kind of and how long is the training? Where does training take place? Do you train at home area with your squadron? or is there out of area training, like going to schools in the military?

Each squadron tends to be a little different, though there are certain functions that every unit must have.  There are different types of squadrons: cadet, senior and composite.  Cadet squadrons' primary focus is operating a cadet program.  Senior squadrons primary focus is CAP's operational missions or mission support (no cadet programs in those units).  Composite squadrons have a little of both (and the vast majority of units fall into this destignation) but you'll find that many squadrons have a different balance of activities and programs.  For example, some may be very into Emergency Services with lots of capability, their own aircraft, comms setups and lots of ES training activities.  Others might be light on ES but focus on Aerospace Education and Cadet Programs heavily and piggy-back off other units for more ES-intensive stuff.   There are also Higher Headquarters units (Group, Wing and Region Headquarters) which provide oversight and support for the units under their command.   Each unit varies, so as was suggested earlier, the best way to find out is to visit a local squadron (or several, if you have them) and see what it's like.

As for the types of jobs available and all of that, honestly the best guide for prospective and brand new members is the CAP Great Start Handbook:  http://capmembers.com/media/cms/Great_Start_Guide__lores__cropped_E4FAFED36450E.pdf

Pages 5 through 7 list the main jobs you find at CAP units and brief descriptions of what you could expect to be doing.  Page 8 onward also answers some of your questions about what training you can expect to be doing.  Some of it is online training (reading, viewing powerpoints, taking quizzes), some at the unit with your mentor or OJT (on-the-job trainer), and some more advanced stuff comes in the form of weekend classes, workshops and even weeklong training.  You are also eligible to take classes from USAF's Air University by correspondence course for free, which include courses that may qualify for college or graduate school credits.  Popular Air University courses include Squadron Officer School,   Air Command and Staff College and Air War College - the same courses often taken by USAF junior and senior officers.

Some of the training is mandatory and you'll need to do a few things (considered part of our Level 1 training) before you can do pretty much anything in CAP include wearing a uniform.  It includes some online modules and conversations with your commander or OJT.  It can be completed fairly quickly.

I have soooo many questions. And I would gladly do my own research and find my own answers. However, unlike standard military functions, CAP info is hard to find. I didn't even know it existed up until a few months ago.

A lot of info can be found at www.capmembers.com.  Particularly, check out the landing page for new members at: http://capmembers.com/cap_university/level_i_foundations.cfm

So definitely check that link out and you'll find a wealth of information to keep you busy. 

Oh, also, is there a physical that has to be taken? (sorry if thats been asked or answered already) If there is I can't imagine you'd have to go to MEPS do you?

No MEPS or Physical test.  The cadets in CAP are required to meet certain physical fitness standards in order to stay in the program and promote, but adult members do not.  The reason being that the cadets' physical fitness activities are part of one of our goals for the cadet program, which is to encourage youth to develop a life-long habit of exercise and healthy living.

Some more questions, being that technically the CAP is USAF auxiliary, can you put down that your serving the US armed forces on resumes / job applications and such?  My common sense actually sways me on this. One way I say no because its civilian volunteer...however, it is working with the AF, so... I don't know.

You cannot represent yourself as being part of the Armed Forces.  CAP members' status is as civilian volunteers with Civil Air Patrol.  Even though CAP acts as the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary when carrying out certain missions, it does not mean that members of CAP are inherently members of the Air Force. 

However, you certainly can talk about your experience in Civil Air Patrol on your resume if you wish.  I list Civil Air Patrol and my duty title(s) under "Para-professional Experience" on my resume, after my Professional (or "paid") experience.  So for example:

Para-Professional Experience:

Civil Air Patrol, Deputy Commander for Cadets.  Fulton, New York.  Aug 2005 - Present.
* list typical duties...

I understand this doesn't function as 'hardcore' as the standard military, but exactly how strict is it? Is saluting of superior officers required at all times? Is everyone required to call each other by rank and last name? 

Civil Air Patrol is rarely described as "hard core", haha.  But we do have customs and courtesies.  Superior officers are entitled to salutes when we're outside and in uniform, and are entitled to courtesies such as being called "sir" or "ma'am".  A full guide to our customs and courtesies is available in CAP Pamphlet 151: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P151_9028588D89DD2.pdf

That having been said, you'll find that especially when cadets are not around, the adults amongst themselves go by first names especially at the unit when everyone's familiar with each other.  The level of seriousness also varies by unit, so another reason to get to your local squadron and check it out. 

I would just go to a meeting and find this stuff out, but from the website, it says they only meet once a month at the end of the month, ...so I guess I have some time to kill.

Any other units nearby?

Thanks for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

Post your questions and good luck with your decision to join Civil Air Patrol.  I've spent over 12 years total in CAP -- 6 as a cadet, and 6 as a senior member, and have enjoyed the experience as a whole very much.  I do not regret joining CAP.  The bonus of course is that if, down the road, you decide it's not for you anymore, there's no obligation.  You can leave at any time.  However, for many of us, that's much easier said than done.  One of our boards' members *cough*Stonewall*coughcough* couldn't not renew his membership even when he wanted to.

[JasonFMX]

Again, outstanding. Thanks again. I'm going to look over all the info you sent me.


Two quick side questions before I read the things you gave me and come up with more questions.

1. Does college credit count toward promotions at all?

2. Fingerprints......MEPS already has my fingerprints on file...or should I say, they had my prints at least (had them taken November 1998 for the USMC). Will I need to do them again?

[DC]

Again, outstanding. Thanks again. I'm going to look over all the info you sent me.


Two quick side questions before I read the things you gave me and come up with more questions.

1. Does college credit count toward promotions at all?

2. Fingerprints......MEPS already has my fingerprints on file...or should I say, they had my prints at least (had them taken November 1998 for the USMC). Will I need to do them again?

No, college credit has no bearing on promotions, and you will still needed to fingerprinted again for CAP.

[Eclipse]

2. Fingerprints......MEPS already has my fingerprints on file...or should I say, they had my prints at least (had them taken November 1998 for the USMC). Will I need to do them again?

Yes.

[Eclipse]

Many units run an informal interview process, with various staff members talking with the potential applicant to see "where his/her head is" so to speak.  You will also have to be fingerprinted & the FBI will screen your prints & check for any criminal records. (So full disclosure on your application is necessary).

Some have formal membership boards.  I encourage my Unit CC's to require a member attend at least 3 consecutive meetings with the boards being held after that.

By three meetings you should have a fairly good idea on the basics of CAP.

As you're probably seeing, not all units are created equal, many specialize.  If you find the particular unit you originally hook up with is not fulfilling your expectations, check into other units. A good commander would prefer you transfer to a unit where you are happy rather then leave CAP (or never join).

Also, this is the summer season - things may be lighter during the actual meetings than normal, but we are plenty busy.  Some cadets go out of town during the summer and can't participate locally, but others, as well as many seniors, may be off at encampments, flight academies, SAR school, etc.

In fact, that might be some indication of how active they are.  I personally encourage my members to participate in as many extra-unit activities as possible.  If all the members are in-formation now, yo might want to inquire how much their members participate around the wing and region.

Most of the really fun stuff happens outside a normal meeting.

[Eclipse]

One of the things you didn't ask about is ops temp - how busy will, or can, you be in CAP?

The answer varies by unit and wing, but its normally "as busy as you want to be".

Here's what my 09 looked like so far - I'm a Group CC, so we don't meet weekly, but
about 1/3 of my members in local units were right beside me on the below, and most of them
meet weekly on top of these activities, and have other staff jobs as well. My wing is very active
with two encampments, two flight academies, a lot of real-world ES, and a bunch of other large
activities.

(Most "days" are weekend days that go from 0-dark to late evening).

Feb -
Kentucky Ice Quake - (1-week deployed for disaster relief)
Wing Staff Meeting
SLS/CLC - 2 days (professional development training)
IG training for SUI's (1 day)
Ongoing encampment planning

Mar -
Required Staff training for encampment (1 day)
Ongoing encampment planning

April -
Encampment (6 days over two consecutive weekends)

May -
Biennial SAR Evaluation practice exercise (3 days)
Biennial SAR Evaluation actual (3 days)

June -
Unit Commander's Course (2 days)

So 21 days so far this year, and I'm scheduled for Region Staff College next week - that's a whole week
plus travel, so another 7 - that'll be a month already.  I had a couple months with back-to-back full weekends in a row, and I'm going to miss out on a once-in-a-lifetime o-ride the week after RSC because at some point I need to be home a little.

Knowing other activities I have on the calendar, I'll probably give a dedicated month and a half at least to CAP this year, plus normal command and staff duties each week.  Last ear I wrote off about $2500 in CAP expenses on my taxes, on top of submitting another $500 or so reimbursable.  It'll be the same again this year, but with higher reimbursement because KY provided full lodging and per diem on top of fuel.

I'm "fully engaged", and have a flexible employment situation that lets me work basically wherever I have a place to sit and internet, (not to mention an awesome wife) Not everyone can do that, and I'm told, though I have yet to confirm it, that some members actually like to do other things on weekends besides CAP.

Weirdos.   

[JasonFMX]

Excellent, a lot of my questions have been answered. Thank you