Centralize Aircraft Maintenance

[oak2007]

California Wing is about to enter in the CMX program. I would like to gather feedback from other Wings who are currenty under the CMX program.

[Al Sayre]

Best thing that NHQ & USAF has done for CAP in years!  It can be a bit of a pain depending where your central provider is, but USAF pays for the ferry and a follower to bring the crew home.  No more annoying little gripes that "we'll fix when we get the money" or aircraft that are down for a couple months because the Wing can't afford the annual.  The training budget gets smaller, but all you are paying for is gas and other incidentals, so you don't have to worry about the per hour dry rate + gas when juggling a SAREX budget.  All in all, it's a great program.

[EMT-83]

Our experience is that maintenance takes longer, as the "centralized" shop is busy servicing lots of CAP aircraft. We plan on being down a couple of weeks for a 100 hour service. Ferrying planes takes two pilots at least half a day to deliver the plane, then again to retrieve it, as there are no authorized shops nearby.

Minor squawks now wait until scheduled maintenance, instead of getting immediate attention. Admittedly, we were spoiled by taking the plane to the FBO across the field. They did quality work at a reasonable price, which I understand isn't always the case.

Other than the time factor, the program seems to work okay.

[sparks]

I agree with the previous comments about less convenient but simpler. If the wing maintenance officer proposed shops that were convenient and also met the rates expected by NHQ ferry times and convenience would be improved. The place we use isn't convenient to anyone so no one is favored. 

In summary consolidated isn't perfect but seems to be working.

[davidsinn]

I agree with the previous comments about less convenient but simpler. If the wing maintenance officer proposed shops that were convenient and also met the rates expected by NHQ ferry times and convenience would be improved. The place we use isn't convenient to anyone so no one is favored. 

In summary consolidated isn't perfect but seems to be working.

It seems to me from looking at a map that perhaps CAWG should have 2 shops. One north, one south.

[jeders]

My experience with centralized maintenance has been less than stellar. Like EMT-83, we were spoiled by having the maintenance done at the local FBO where they did considerably better work than the consoliated shop. And it's less about the time inconvenience and more about the fact that my dog could do a better and higher quality job than the shop that TXWG uses.

But other than that little rant, I think consolidated maintenance is great in theory at least. We just need to find better ways to evaluate and pick the shops we use.

[oak2007]

What is everyones thought on cost savings, or the quality of the work being done by the contract vendors

[Nolan Teel]

Texas has been on CMX for a few years now.  We have three shops around the state that take care of our 30+ planes.  Every so often we have delays but the delays seem to come from waiting on engines that never seem to come from National or avionics.  We had a 172 that was waiting on an engine that took 180+ days, the engine kept getting re-routed to other planes around the country.

Our wing MX officer does a good job working with units to get the PO but again it seems that we get the "waiting on national approval" a lot. As far as 50/100 hour inspections planes are down for maybe 2-3 days.  But as our fleet ages expect to see more down time.  The group commander in North Texas has his staff tracking total MX Down days on the fleet.

I'm torn between CMX and not but it does provide a funded way for pilots to stay in the cockpit.  If it says CAP money I say go for it!  It also helps get some much needed time on CAP Aircraft. 

[FW]

Our experience is that maintenance takes longer, as the "centralized" shop is busy servicing lots of CAP aircraft. We plan on being down a couple of weeks for a 100 hour service. Ferrying planes takes two pilots at least half a day to deliver the plane, then again to retrieve it, as there are no authorized shops nearby.

Minor squawks now wait until scheduled maintenance, instead of getting immediate attention. Admittedly, we were spoiled by taking the plane to the FBO across the field. They did quality work at a reasonable price, which I understand isn't always the case.

Other than the time factor, the program seems to work okay.

I agree.  CMX is less convenient however, it saves us lots of cash.  Also, minor squawks (under $200) can be done at local FBO withOUT  prior approval by NHQ/LGM.  Even 50 hour oil changes can be done at the local shop IF you ask the contract shop to include an "oil change kit" during the 100 hour inspection.  As long as the system is not abused, there should be no problem. 

[Eclipse]

CMX is great, one of the best decisions CAP has made.

Lower price, consistent quality, "major customer attention" from the service shop, more funded flight hours and less overall cost.

Hard to argue that.   I also agree that perhaps the larger states could justify multiple shops, but should go to single-CMX as a start to get everyone in the mindset, then manage from there.  Plenty of FBO's and service shops have multiple regional locations.

[sdcapmx]

We have been on the program for a few months and it seems to be working fairly well.  One thing I see is that since the shop has a guaranteed customer they may not get at the repairs as soon as they would for a customer who has the choice of where he gets his AC worked on.  Just depends if you get a quality shop bidding the MX.

[FW]

^good point however, we are very good customers with our contract FBOs.  If there are problems with service, inform NHQ/LGM and they will help fix the complaint to the point of helping the wing find a new facility.

[Eclipse]

Any FBO giving better service to one-off customers vs. a corporate client pushing multiple airplanes through their shop isn't going to be in business very long, unless they have so many one-offs that they don't need the corporate business, in which case CAP should look elsewhere.

[sdcapmx]

I have had problems with the centralized MX shops in regards to completing the logs and cleaning up the AC when the do 100 hr inspections.  When they skip cleaning the AC it makes me wonder what else they skipped.  The cleaning of AC is right in their contract as well as the Cessna checklists.

[Eclipse]

I have had problems with the centralized MX shops in regards to completing the logs and cleaning up the AC when the do 100 hr inspections.  When they skip cleaning the AC it makes me wonder what else they skipped.  The cleaning of AC is right in their contract as well as the Cessna checklists.

That's not an issue with CMX, that's an issue with that shop.  If they aren't performing the required services, why is the aircraft PIC signing off on the work, and why is Wing paying the bill.

This could potentially be a borderline FW&A complaint because CAP Inc., is paying for services they aren't getting.

[jimmydeanno]

Our aircraft (the one at my unit) had some serious issues with the previous maintainer.  CMX has been hugely beneficial in just this one case.

Our aircraft had a few things that weren't so kosher.  One big example is the complete failure of the previous shop to diagnose and fix the reason the rudder had so much movement.  Turns out that the rudder stops were completely missing, not just bent, but missing.

Also, the cleaning wasn't being done.  The CMX shop pulled nearly 25 pounds of debris, sand, trash, etc out of the fuselage.  Talk about screwing up your W&B...

CMX has helped us greatly - we couldn't be happier...

[BillB]

The only complaint I've heard about Centralized maintenance is the flying time reuired by some Squadrons to the CMX site. For example in Florida It's a 3 1/2 hour flight for several squadrons. This is due to Florida's shape and size. Florida needs two sites as does probably several other large Wings. A previous CMX site took three months to do the annual on a glider. Then the mainenance was accepted by CAP by a person that has never even flown in a glider.