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mikeylikey
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« on: April 21, 2006, 07:56:33 PM »

With my CAP unit being on a Military Facility, there are the usuall AAFES establishments such as the PX/BX, the Clothing Sales Store, and class six (beer and wine store).  Here is my dilemma, I walked into the beer store, and bumped into one of my members buying a case of beer.  I did not think anything of it, until I also saw him yesterday buying gas at the gas station on Post.  We chatted and walked inside to pay for our fuel, when the woman behind the counter asked for our Id's.  I pulled out my military id, he pulled out his CAP id, and we both payed.  Not to cause a scene, I confronted him outside and asked if he was either a military member, a dependant of a member or a former member.  He replied none, and asked why I asked.
  Basically, I told him that AAFES was strictly for military members and their dependants, and other certain individuals are given limited access to it, like CAP members for the clothing sales store.  He went on to say he knows, but the prices are cheapper, and he even shops at the Commissary (grocery store).  I couldn't believe it.  This to me sounds like an Ethical problem on his part.  He is basically stealing from those who are entitled to the services.  I do not know what else he does while on the post, and am very curious if I can ask him to leave the squadron.  He has his car registered with the pass and ID office, and he could be coming and going as he pleases. 
  JUST wondering what types of options I have, and if anyone has had any similar types of situations.
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BillB
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2006, 08:22:35 PM »

The only time I've purchased gas on base was during encampments when you're putting mileage on the vehicle for the encampment. And usually I found a cadet with a dependents card to go with me. The same applied to coffee from the commissary if it was to be used by staff at the encampment. Beer or wine or anything alcholic is a no-no and always has been. The old CAP regulations listed what was not authorized for purchase, but also said if in government housing (barracks, BOQ etc) there were exceptions.
Now your member is violating the regulation, and is one of the many reasons that CAP gets in trouble on Base.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
md132
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2006, 08:33:10 PM »

If he is not military, dependent, contractor or base employee he has NO reason to purchase anything at Class six, the gas station and commisary.  As an AAFES employee he is abusing the privilages.  You are correct in informing him about the use of AAFES and base facilities.  Also if he was able to purchase groceries at the commisary or purchase alcohol at Class six then the employees are not doing their job.  All employees of these businesses knows what ID's to look at and should know what CAP can or can not purchase.  It is in their training guide that was last updated in 1999.  Basically the only AAFES establishments that CAP members can purchase from are PX/BX(Uniform items only), Food establishments(BK, Taco Bell, Anthony's Pizza) and MCSS (USAF uniform items only).  That is about it.  They are not to go into Class six, the Automart(Gas Station), commisary, or any MWR facility as a CAP member.  I am also suprised that the ID and pass office actually let him register his vehicle.  Not even AAFES employess can do that.  As for asking him to leave the squadron that is up to your squadron commander.  Let the commander know about this.  Also what would be a good idea is to inform all members of the squadron about AAFES privileges.

I actually had a senior member of another wing come to APG one day and tried to purchase a computer product at the PX.  He wasn't military or any of the other authorized patrons so I refused to sell it to him.  When he tried to tell me that he was with USAF and showed me his CAP membership card I told him "Sorry, sir but I am with CAP as well.  And unless you have the proper DoD ID you are not authorized and I could report you"  Which is true.  Anyone that is not authorized to be at a location can be reported to the Provost Marshal or the Base police.  

I hope this helps a little.

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PhoenixRisen
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2006, 03:13:35 AM »

While on this topic (and since you're an AAFES employee, 1st Lt Salas), could you answer two questions for me?

I found this exerpt from AAFES TG-1003:
Quote
Special Privileges (to include MWR and Coast Guard patrons)
1. Uniform Items can be purchased by:
•Civil Air Patrol cadets and senior members
•Coast Guard Auxiliary members
•Delayed Entry Program personnel (DEPPER)
•Graduating ROTC cadets (within 90 days of graduation and commissioning) can establish a Uniformed Clothing Plan and have uniforms tailored
2. Exchange privileges (except tax-free items) are authorized for:
•Civil Air Patrol cadets and senior members
•ROTC and junior ROTC cadets (under orientation program)
•Naval Sea Cadet Corps (on 2-week training duty)
•DoD civilian personnel
•Contract technical services personnel in a travel status
•Army, Navy, and Air Force Academy applicants
•Delayed Entry Program personnel (DEPPER)

It says (after "special priveliges are authorized for:"), "to include MWR & Coast Guard patrons".  What exactly does that mean?

And my second question.

It says exchange priveliges (except tax-free items) are authorized for us.  To my knowledge, EVERYTHING at Military exchanges are tax free, so what does that mean?  Shouldn't they have just said No exchange priveliges are authorized for CAP members?
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md132
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2006, 02:59:53 PM »

To answer your first question cadet, it means that you can purchase only uniform items.  When it says to include MWR and Coast Guard patrons meaning customer wise.  So for special privileges not only include CAP but MWR employees and Coast Guard customers.

To your secound question,  What tax free items mean items that has federal taxes on them to include gas.  It doesn't mean state sales tax.  Also these exchange privileges is only if you are under orders and have a Military Support Authoizationo only.  So basically if you are at SAR College for example and staying at a VOQ, then you can purchase something like pillows, but only if you have a MSA and your CAP membership card.  Also it would be good to take the CAPR that govern this.  I'm not sure what it is off the top of my head.  OR you can bring a copy of the page from AR 60-20 that includes this just in case there is any question.  But to be safe if an AAFES employee refuses to sell you an item don't fight it.  It may damage whatever privileges we have.

So I hope this helps.  Let me know if anyone have questions about AAFES
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md132
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2006, 03:03:17 PM »

On a side not Cadet Ramos about your signature block.  Please do not use pay grades (i.e. E3)  This is a pay grade not rank.  You can use the rank abbriviation but considering we do not get paid it might not be professional to use pay grades.  If anyone disagree please let me know. 
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shorning
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2006, 05:11:31 PM »

So basically if you are at SAR College for example and staying at a VOQ, then you can purchase something like pillows, but only if you have a MSA and your CAP membership card. 

I always chuckle to myself when I go to a CAP activity on a base and they hand me an MSA.  While I'll carry it, I don't think I've used one in 15 years.   :D

Also it would be good to take the CAPR that govern this.  I'm not sure what it is off the top of my head.

CAPR147-1, Army and Air Force Exchange Privileges of CAP Members (dated 10 Feb 86)
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lordmonar
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2006, 06:27:10 PM »

JUST wondering what types of options I have, and if anyone has had any similar types of situations.

Call AAFES and tell them of the situations (don't mention his name) and have them enforce their own rules.  Yes he is receiving a benefit he is not entitled to but he is not really stealing.  At the squadron I would remind my SM's what and when they can use their CAP ID's to gain access to the base and stress it is for Clothing Sales only.

On the whole I would not get too worked up about it.....AAFES has turned a blind eye to this sort of things for at least 20 years.  When it gets too out of hand they start to crack down on it.  But from a cash flow point of view, they don't really care if you are authorized or not.  They just want your money.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2006, 07:36:11 PM »

On the gas--I know someone who is not a Military Dependent, and has no base rights.  He goes with his girlfriend, a USMC Dependent, on base to buy "cheap gas."

Question--while I'm at a CAP Activity on a Military Base, can I use my Dependents' ID Card to buy stuff from the Exchange?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2006, 09:31:36 PM »

Your "dependentness" is independent from your "cadetness". Each status has a set of rules, entitlements and privileges associated with it.

Sometimes one status can override the other. In your case, you, in your dependent status, can exercise those privileges, provided you do so in the correct manner (i.e. using your tan ID card). You can buy stuff for you, your immediate family, and reasonable gifts. The cited gas for the boyfriend is not in the realm of reasonable gift, and constitutes an abuse of the privilege.

BTW, that  tan ID card isn't a "Dependent's ID Card", it's a DD Form 1173, United States Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card, just like mine. Nowhere on the card does it say dependent!
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2006, 10:02:44 PM »

Your "dependentness" is independent from your "cadetness". Each status has a set of rules, entitlements and privileges associated with it.

Sometimes one status can override the other. In your case, you, in your dependent status, can exercise those privileges, provided you do so in the correct manner (i.e. using your tan ID card). You can buy stuff for you, your immediate family, and reasonable gifts. The cited gas for the boyfriend is not in the realm of reasonable gift, and constitutes an abuse of the privilege.

BTW, that  tan ID card isn't a "Dependent's ID Card", it's a DD Form 1173, United States Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card, just like mine. Nowhere on the card does it say dependent!

So, sir are you saying that it's OK to use my DD Form 1173 during a CAP Activity, provided that the item/s I am purchasing are for my use?
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shorning
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2006, 10:23:42 PM »

***POP!***
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SarDragon
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2006, 10:25:35 PM »

Well, if the constraints of the activity allow you to go to the exchange, yes.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2006, 05:34:28 PM »

Slightly off topic, but of note.  What does the group think of CAP members joining the Officers club on the military base where the squadron meets, or nearby?   
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Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
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MIKE
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 05:46:30 PM »

Slightly off topic, but of note.  What does the group think of CAP members joining the Officers club on the military base where the squadron meets, or nearby?   

I should think you would need an MSA for that.
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Mike Johnston
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2006, 07:25:50 PM »

Only if one of the following occurs, under MSA, CAP acitivity or attending a military event.
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Smokey
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2006, 08:27:21 PM »

I use the gas station on base all the time.  The base is in the middle of nowhere and the nearest gas station is 16 miles away.  And I live 70 miles away so the need for gas is obvious. I'm a member of the aero club and often find it necessary to get gas there. The price is usually with 2 cents of the area price so it's not for the price that I buy gas there.  I've also used the BX for minor items, snacks, soft drinks, a newspaper, or base t-shirt.

I've never used the commissary nor sought to purchase a large appliance, furniture, etc. 

So I guess Lt Salas will just have to dime me off to the security police. Probably 30 days hard labor will make the point.
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 08:43:05 PM »

Slightly off topic, but of note.  What does the group think of CAP members joining the Officers club on the military base where the squadron meets, or nearby?   

I am not sure how the relationship is with the Base Commander and your CAP unit, I have seen many Commanders invite and even request (strongly request) the CAP officers to join the Officers Club or Open Mess.  If you want to join the O-Club, go inquire within the club itself.  I read awhile ago that the "Air Force Clubs" were like a business and that they allowed CAP members to join as patron member or on a similar status.  I know the O-Club around my parts, allows all officers, Government Employees above GS-7, all E-8's and above, and CAP/Coast Guard AUX Officers to become members.  Members are treated to free haircuts, a lunch buffet for $3.00, and quarter beers Mon-Thur.  Joining the clubs if allowed, does have its perks.  Plus it is a place for all of us to go after meetings and BS awhile.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 11:09:11 PM »

I use the gas station on base all the time.  The base is in the middle of nowhere and the nearest gas station is 16 miles away.  And I live 70 miles away so the need for gas is obvious. I'm a member of the aero club and often find it necessary to get gas there. The price is usually with 2 cents of the area price so it's not for the price that I buy gas there.  I've also used the BX for minor items, snacks, soft drinks, a newspaper, or base t-shirt.

I've never used the commissary nor sought to purchase a large appliance, furniture, etc. 

So I guess Lt Salas will just have to dime me off to the security police. Probably 30 days hard labor will make the point.
My use of the exchange system is a PRIVILEGE granted me after having met the requirements - AD, Reservist, Retiree or authorized dependent thereof. It is not a lifetime right and can be revoked if abused. I earned it on AD, my dad earned it when he was on AD and I was a dependent, and I now continue as a retiree. I do not appreciate abuse by those not entitled.

BTW, the exchange and commissary are parts of two separate systems. The commissaries belong to DECA and are appropriated funds activities. They are partly subsidized from some DoD pocket of money. OTOH, exchanges are non-appropriated funds activities and are entirely self-supporting. "Profits" go into base MWR funds or similar pockets.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 11:54:06 PM »

my dad earned it when he was on AD and I was a dependent, and I now continue as a retiree. I do not appreciate abuse by those not entitled.


Same here, sir.  I am not a member of the Armed Forces yet, but I do hope to one day become one.
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