Fire Department Lost Person SAR training

[RiverAux]

I think it was mentioned a while back here that there are some national training standards for lost person SAR that are used for qualifications by fire departments.  I'm not talking about "SAR" in the context that most firefighters think about it as finding people inside houses, but in the way us CAP people normally use it. 

Have any of you gone to any of this fire department style SAR training?  How does it compare with CAP's ground team program?

I ask because our state fire academy does sponsor such classes on occassion and while some of them focus on technical SAR (ropework, etc.) that CAP doesn't use, I wonder about the other stuff. 

As a related issue, have any of you volunteer or professional firefighters found other aspects of your firefighter training that have been helpful in some form in your CAP ground team work?  Anything we could be learning from them?

[wingnut55]

Oh yes we can learn from them, I use to be a tech rep for volunteer fire departments over an entire State.

Volunteer Fireman are more dedicated, spend a minimum of 20 hours a month pulling duty not including training. Must meet nationally recognized standards, cannot make up their own standards, get little reimbursement, and I hardly heard them ever complain about having to be on call and carrying a beeper.

[Rotorhead]

Oh yes we can learn from them, I use to be a tech rep for volunteer fire departments over an entire State.

Volunteer Fireman are more dedicated, spend a minimum of 20 hours a month pulling duty not including training. Must meet nationally recognized standards, cannot make up their own standards, get little reimbursement, and I hardly heard them ever complain about having to be on call and carrying a beeper.

So what is it that they do regarding SAR that we can learn from them?

How much of that 20 hours a month deals with backcountry GSAR techniques?

[es_g0d]

In general, the VFD model is where CAP needs to go in terms of operations.  I consider VFD members to be "unpaid professionals," and that's exactly what WE need to be too!  My hat's off to them.

[EMT-83]

Volunteer Fireman are more dedicated, spend a minimum of 20 hours a month pulling duty not including training. Must meet nationally recognized standards, cannot make up their own standards, get little reimbursement, and I hardly heard them ever complain about having to be on call and carrying a beeper.

Maybe. I think you'll find that volunteer fire departments are very much like CAP units. Some are outstanding, many are not. Although nationally recognized standards do exist, they are ignored by some agencies. As a third-generation volly with just shy of 30 years service, I've seen both ends of the spectrum.

Back to the original question... fire personnel will train for incidents most likely to occur within their community. In my town, we have a park with cliffs that attract rock climbers with various skill levels, so we need to be proficient in high angle rope work. We also practice tracking techniques, finding and interpreting clues left by someone walking through the woods - footprints, disturbed vegetation, etc.

I would say that the skill which applies most to CAP would be the ability to manage incidents. ICS is something that you get better at when you have the chance to actually use it. Interesting side note: I just completed CLC this weekend. Many of the ideas presented apply to the fire service just as much as CAP.

Also, don't sell yourself short. CAP has an excellent approach to ground team work. There are CAP techniques that I've brought back to the fire department, so it works both ways.

[Hoser]

Fire Depts are not the people to do Inland SAR. They dont have the correct mindset. "Moth to Candle" syndrome. As a retired PROFESSIONAL firefighter my position on vols is this, would you want some guy to stop wiring a house and come take out your appendix? I think not

[Eclipse]

Oh yes we can learn from them, I use to be a tech rep for volunteer fire departments over an entire State.

Volunteer Fireman are more dedicated,

More dedicated than who?  20 hours a month?  That's a week for a lot of CAP people.

There is absolutely no point in comparing dislike organizations in some attempt to make one group's volunteerism "better" than another's.

Thanks for serving. Pour some java, pull up a chair and swap some stories, but leave the "x" is more dedicated than "y" out of it.

"You're hear on your own nickel?  Awesome, me too, let's go find that dude..."

[Flying Pig]

In CA, the Sheriff is responsible for SAR, not Fire Departments. Ive never been on a SAR with a firefighter.  They dont even get called.

[EMT-83]

Fire Depts are not the people to do Inland SAR. They dont have the correct mindset. "Moth to Candle" syndrome. As a retired PROFESSIONAL firefighter my position on vols is this, would you want some guy to stop wiring a house and come take out your appendix? I think not

And I thought dinosaurs were extinct.