Saluting vehicles

[Flying Pig]

This came up a while back, and there were several members on this board who felt that military/CAP members for some reason are suppossed to salute stickers on windshields.  Here is a response from a Navy 0-6 that should put it to rest.  Bravo Capt. Conners :clap:

http://www.aerotechnews.com/ptmuguhueneme/commentary/Ask-the-Captain-2009-01-14T19-52-34

[PHall]

You just know the poor CWO who's married to this idiot has received more then a couple phone calls telling him to "control his wife".

[DC]

BZ to the good Capt. for putting that lady firmly in her place... Geez..

[BGNightfall]

I seem to remember this topic coming up in boot camp, as to why we had to salute the "blue knot" stickers on certain vehicles windshields.  The ultimate reason came down to one of the 11 General Orders of the Sentry.  Now as a CAP cadet I don't remember ever having to know them, but as a 21 year old Recru-it I sure as sugar did.  The tenth general order states "I will salute all officers, and all colors and standards uncased."  It was ever so gently pointed out to me that the sticker on the windshield of the car is an officer's standard, and therefore worthy of a salute by its own merit, regardless of who is occupying the vehicle.

Whether or not there is merit to this is certainly up for debate, there was a lot of military nonsense cooked up just for recruits.  

As for Mrs. CWO... In my experience the easiest way for a person to prove themselves undeserving of a salute is for them to pull up a subordinate and demand it.  As a Senior Chief of mine put it "There are some ensigns whom I would very much like to tell 'Sir, if you would please take off your uniform and hang it up, I would gladly salute it,'"

[wuzafuzz]

As a former gate guard at NAS Pt. Mugu, one of the bases mentioned in the article, I have to chuckle.  The gate guards are civilian contractors.  You know, "private security guards."  Port Hueneme also had private guards.  During my time there we did salute officers, but not their vehicle, sticker, seatbelt, or even the tires.  The salute was offered out of respect and because our contract required it.  A few spouses expected salutes but usually didn't get them.  The Admiral's wife got a little farther with that than the others.  If the DOD Police helped us at the gate they didn't salute anybody.

As civilians UCMJ definitely didn't apply.  At least one guard who screwed up royally did find himself punished under federal laws, but not UCMJ.  (Word to the wise, don't charge admission to the free airshow when working the gate.  Felony stupid!)

Having said all that, training was terrible to nonexistent and the staff wasn't always professional.  Those of us that had our heads screwed on straight didn't hang around for long.

[Flying Pig]

Im going to have to say this again.  Ive NEVER saluted a blue sticker.  As a Security Force Marine standing gate duty, when a car pulled up, I greeted the driver, checked the ID and if an occupant IN the car rated a salute, I came to attention, "Good morning Sir/Ma'am" and they proceeded.  Many times it would be the child or spouse of the officer.  Politely "have a good day"  No salute.  I did not salute the car as it drove up.  It didnt matter if it had an Eagle or 4 stars above the sticker.  Simple tactical lesson here folks.  We didnt want to get shot standing at attention holding a salute with an unknown occupant in the car.  Never did I or any other Marine, or any officer have an issue with this.  So this story about saluting the sticker is baseless.  As I was walking around base, I didnt salute passing cars either.  Believe it or not, the gate guard is not there to salute stickers.....he/she is actually there to prevent illegal entry and use deadly force if necessary.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Dang!  There's an O-6 that tells it like it is!  Pretty rare in the Politically-Correct Military of Today (PCMT).

The blue sticker, which is no longer required on Air Force bases, ALERTED the sentry to the approach of an officer.  The officer rated the salute, not his wife, kids, or dog.

My wife came to pick me up one day and was in her police uniform, and a private saluted her, but that was the exception.

Different story when a general officer is in a vehicle.  Salute the plate or flag.

[Flying Pig]

Dang!  There's an O-6 that tells it like it is!  Pretty rare in the Politically-Correct Military of Today (PCMT).

The blue sticker, which is no longer required on Air Force bases, ALERTED the sentry to the approach of an officer.  The officer rated the salute, not his wife, kids, or dog.

My wife came to pick me up one day and was in her police uniform, and a private saluted her, but that was the exception.

Different story when a general officer is in a vehicle.  Salute the plate or flag.

I will agree to that.  When in a government car with the official standard or plate, that meant the general was ACTUALLY in the car and usually wasnt  asurprise when it pulled up.  Actually, it usually went right on through with the several other vehicle parading along behind it. 

Or, when the Department of Energy's Office of Secure Transportation came though.....they didnt stop either!

[Smokey]

Or, when the Department of Energy's Office of Secure Transportation came though.....they didnt stop either!

Yeah the SSTs (Secure Transp) are NOT to be messed with.   They are deadly serious folks!   Do they ever smile?

[Hawk200]

This came up a while back, and there were several members on this board who felt that military/CAP members for some reason are suppossed to salute stickers on windshields. 

I've heard this a few times, and my father has told me stories of a rather hapless lieutenant that demanded his sticker be saluted (story was set in the late 60's), but I've never heard of it as any type of official policy in the entire 20 years I've worn a uniform. I've seen gate guards salute officers after being presented with an officer ID, but never seen a sticker saluted. I keep thinking that it was either an old policy that faded out, or just never existed formally in the first place.

The tenth general order states "I will salute all officers, and all colors and standards uncased."  It was ever so gently pointed out to me that the sticker on the windshield of the car is an officer's standard, and therefore worthy of a salute by its own merit, regardless of who is occupying the vehicle.

I would love to see in black and white somewhere an official policy that a blue window sticker is designated an officers "colors" or "standard". Strkes me as the same kind of hooey as the separated Airborne tab, or sewing patches on with various color thread to give different meaning.

[afgeo4]

I distinctly remember being taught this in basic training (USAF):

1. Salute all officers (not civilians)
2. Salute vehicles denoted with Colonel and above plate or flag if the vehicle is occupied.
3. Never, NEVER salute an unoccupied vehicle. Remember, you're saluting the officer, not the Chevrolet.

Vehicle identification stickers are only for vehicle identification. They are not for occupant identification. That's why a valid military ID must be seen by the sentry to gain access (and salute).

There are regulations on who gets rendered a salute (customs and courtesies). DoD and DHS military vehicle decals are not mentioned in those regulations.

[jb512]

I remember in the 80's and early 90's when MPs/SPs manned the gates they would wave cars through the gate and throw a salute to a blue sticker regardless of the occupants.  Now that there's the ID check, they only salute after verifying the ID.  The only cars that rate a salute these days are if the officer is readily identifyable, or marked staff cars.

[Gunner C]

I remember in the 80's and early 90's when MPs/SPs manned the gates they would wave cars through the gate and throw a salute to a blue sticker regardless of the occupants.  Now that there's the ID check, they only salute after verifying the ID.  The only cars that rate a salute these days are if the officer is readily identifyable, or marked staff cars.

At the local Air Guard base, they don't salute after the ID check, but I really don't care.  As long as they shoot the bad guys, they're doing a good job.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

I remember back in the late 60's buying a 1960 Thunderbird from a Navy Captain, it had his sticker on it when I bought it, I did not think any thing of it and just left it on.  One day a marine sgt who lived next door to me invited me to go to the NCO club with him and his buddies.  We took my car, we were all in civilian clothes, but I remember the guard at MCRD saluting my car as we came through.  Maybe it was an isolated incident, but the sgt told me they salute the sticker no matter who is in the car.  Guess times have changed.

[Stonewall]

The DOD Police that stand gates at the Navy bases around these parts are required to render salutes to military officers when identified as such (aka, not their spouse).

Blows my mind.  Civilian GS-7 DOD Police Officer is required to salute a military member.

[RiverAux]

Blows my mind.  Civilian GS-7 DOD Police Officer is required to salute a military member.

Next thing you know they'll start making civilian volunteers salute members of the military   

[Rotorhead]

Simple tactical lesson here folks.  We didnt want to get shot standing at attention holding a salute with an unknown occupant in the car.  Never did I or any other Marine, or any officer have an issue with this.  So this story about saluting the sticker is baseless.  As I was walking around base, I didnt salute passing cars either.  Believe it or not, the gate guard is not there to salute stickers.....he/she is actually there to prevent illegal entry and use deadly force if necessary.

Concise and to the point.

[O-Rex]

That response was fantastic!  Polite, professional, with the underlying "go jump in the lake, lady" theme and tone loud and clear.

This O-6 truly puts the "gentleman" in an Officer & a Gentleman.....

Many moons ago, as a young E-2 at AIT (Tech school for you blue-suiters) I was bumped in a checkout line at AAFES by a Major's wife: this happened to be during the week between the hours of 11 AM and 1PM when uniformed personnel have front-of-line priviliges (don't know if they still do that today) but it was actually the cashier who took up my cause for me, and made the stink about it.   Later that afternoon I was called to see my C.O., who was almost embarrassed to mention it, but apparently the Major (a Staff officer at the Service School) caught flak about it from 'household six' and figured what's one Private in the wake of the withholding of a homecooked meal or any other 'creature comforts' that a spouse would provide, so the incident when down and back up the chain.

What ticked my off was that I never said a word during the incident: it was the Major's Wife and the AAFES cashier duking it out over the issue.  I guess she needed to take out the frustration on someone, and I was the easiest target.

This came to the attention of the School Commandant, a Brigadier General who put out the edict: " Mrs. is NOT one of the 23 ranks in the Army: if a spouse wants such accolades, I would be honored to process them for enlistment, or OCS if so qualified.  Army spouses may have their pecking orders in their respective social circles, but not in my organization."

Best of all, I came out of it unscathed.

Moments like those are few and far between, so you gotta savor them when they do come.  :clap:

Maybe that's why I never once saw an episode of "Army Wives."

[ol'fido]

Wasn't ther an ole folk tale about peasants having to bow to a nobleman's hat sitting on a pole in the town square and our hero refused to bow to a hat. William Tell maybe?

[PHall]

My two Loadmasters and myself were all threatened with "The Wrath of the Colonel" when we took the cell phone from the wife of the Support Group Commander at a base in Alaska so we could takeoff from Mc Chord AFB, WA.

She had decided that the rules didn't apply to her since she was "Mrs Col Blah Blah" and we were only Reserve enlisted folk.

She got her phone back when we dropped her at "her" base and we never heard a peep about it, ever, despite the threats.

But we made [darn] sure that she was on the blacklist for Space-A passengers.
If she wanted to go to Seattle for shopping she was going to have to pay Alaska Airlines because she wasn't flying with AMC.