Outside Ceremonies In Cold Weather -- Common Sense Training Applicable ??!!!

[RADIOMAN015]

I've been looking at the CAP National HQ page "news", "Wreaths Across America" and other outdoor ceremonies recently held -- I am totally amazed at the lack of common sense regarding "protective" clothing being worn in Cold Weather by cadets.  One unit in northeast has cadets in short sleeve shirts (typical cadet issue) in their honor guard on a day that had chill factors close to zero standing outside at a ceremony.   

Our unit was faced with the a similar challenge. Fortunately we had enough donated service coats & cadets were advised to wear thermal underwear, etc under the service dress as long as it couldn't be seen when they were wearing the uniform.     

Hopefully that unit that was involved had a 'very short" ceremony and  more of a quick photo op, rather than bringing the cadets to near hypertherma levels.  Don't think we need another regulation, but surely some "common sense" training might be in order!!!
RM     

[jeders]

...rather than bringing the cadets to near hypertherma levels.

That would be hi body temperature, I think you want hypothermia.

And yes, that's a pretty dumb choice even if it is just a quick photo op.

[Stonewall]

You know, I agree with you 100%, but for some situations I have to ask "what do you do?"

About 12 years ago my squadron commander, against my advice, signed our squadron up to march in a Fall parade through Vienna, VA.  In October, especially in the evening, it can get pretty darn cold.  As you know, the cadets only had short-sleeve blues.  Being one who thinks forward, I knew this was an issue.  He however, did not.  They show up in blues and it's down in the 40s or low 50s with wind blowing pretty good.  He tells them to put their civilian jackets on.

So, tell me this, who are those kids walking down the street with blue pants on and 20 different jackets?  And what's that on their head?  Same for the color guard that night.  A color guard wearing Redskins jackets?  North Face goretex?

I say if it's in the public's eye and you can't do it safely while being IAW 39-1, don't do it.  On ES missions in the woods, no problem.

[Ford73Diesel]

Yes sadly this is an issue, but other than having members buy there own thermal underwear and some sort of all weather coat, i dont see how this can be resolved, other than extremely short ceremonies.

[jeders]

Indoor ceremonies are usually an option. For the OP, that squadron has a regular meeting place, does it not? Can they not do the ceremony inside?

Now for things like WAA, obviously you can't do that indoors. For things like that, I have to agree with Stonewall. If you're in the public's eye and youcan't be warm and be in uniform, just don't do it.

[Major Carrales]

This issue comes up alot.  It is a real concern especially since the Cadets get no jacket from the USAF.  I often have to scrounge around the area just to get lightweight blue coats...normally a trip to Group HQ in San Antonio is my best bet.

Problem is uniformity.  In our area USAF items are hard to come by and mail order is a shot in the dark.

Ho-hum, I'm sure someone will reply that it's my duty as a Unit commander to clothe every cadet with my own money.  Well, that is exactally what I am doing...not much resources left.

[Eclipse]

Ho-hum, I'm sure someone will reply that it's my duty as a Unit commander to clothe every cadet with my own money. 

Its not.

[Stonewall]

Ho-hum, I'm sure someone will reply that it's my duty as a Unit commander to clothe every cadet with my own money.  Well, that is exactally what I am doing...not much resources left.

No.  That is rediculous.  I have spent a lot of money on cadets in my life, but never once did I feel obligated or pressured to.

This issue comes up alot.  It is a real concern especially since the Cadets get no jacket from the USAF. 

You know, it wasn't until the Mid-90s when Gen McPeak screwed changed the Air Force to the Delta Airlines coat and CAP got this huge influx of service coats for cadets, that it practically became the norm for cadets to have service dress. 

As a cadet, I never once saw a cadet wearing service dress, ever.  Not even at encampment during the "dining in".  We wore short-sleeve blues to everything.  I also remember being a cadet and marching in an MLK Day parade in short-sleeve blues and froze my butt off.  We remained in the car with our civilian jackets on until it was time to march.

With very few acceptions, I don't see a need for cadets to have service dress.  Even at things like a banquet at the National Conference, let the cadets wear short-sleeve blues.  I'd rather see every single cadet wearing the same uniform than seeing 20% in service dress, 20% in long-sleeve blues, 20% in short-sleeve blues and 40% in civilian clothes.

As for the cold weather events outside, don't do them.  Not in blues anyway.  Ain't nothing wrong with marching in BDUs with your sleeves rolled down and a long sleeve black shirt underneath.  Can even put black gloves on and still look uni-form.

[lordmonar]

Bottom line.....we use ORM.

The guy on the spot makes the call.  If it is too cold for the uniform you have...cancel the event.

It is not rocket science.

A color guard at a wreath laying.....in the cold.....someone makes the call, supervises the operation and is ready to call a stop if it gets too bad.....ORM in action.

[smj58501]

We conducted WAA in probably the most austere conditions I think of any site. Our wind chill was in the teens to twenty below the doughnut (although when it gets cold its just cold.... does not matter how far past 0 that is).... bottom line is it was cold even for ND.

Original plan called for an outdoor ceremony. Hey.... we have folks who sit on 5 gallon buckets on a frozen lake fishing through holes in the ice.... a 20 minute ceremony is no big deal in normal winter conditions. That plan was scrapped after a "day of" ORM update in favor of an indoor event at the cemetery chapel. It was cozy.... but it was warm and safe. We had ID'ed the need for a secondary site during preplanning ORM in case of really bad wx. It was lined up already and was an easy transition (actually the chapel was in the plan as a place for the elderly/ others who should not be outdoors to take in the ceremony.... the use was just expanded in Plan B).

We had our cadets who were part of the ceremony bring A's and BDU's. They simply changed into BDU's w/ long underwear and appropriate headgear/ outwear when it was time to place wreaths. Common sense prevailed for our senior members with regard to outerwear.... if it is warm wear it for wreath placements after the ceremony. Our seniors wear corporates for the most part anyways so there was no issue.

We also invited several other groups (VFW, AMVETS, American Legion, Boy Scouts, National Guard Family Support, Patriot Guard Riders) to be part of the event, and to stick around to help place the wreaths. We also opened that invite to the public. We knew many hands would be needed to place the number of wreaths we were striving for, especially if we wanted to get it done fairly expediously in winter conditions. This was a combination of ORM and operational planning done in advance in anticipation of potentially cold temps (which came to fruition).

Bottom line is we had close to 250 folks show up despite the weather, and were able to place close to 2600 wreaths (including close to 600 "by request" placements) in a little under an hour. Folks were "reminded" it would be cold, and they took it from there. Their help combined with a pretty solid operations plan and prepositioning of wreaths around the cemetery before the event allowed for us to conduct wreath placements safely despite the wx, and do them quickly yet maintain a level of dignity throughout.

Through it all, a warm building was always a short walk away, and warm drinks were located within as well. EMS was never more than a few minutes away based on coordinations made prior to the event (they simply prepoed a rig nearby). Despite the cold, folks stuck it out. I think part of their motivation came from the belief that the men and women they were honoring that day had to endure much worse hardships in defense of our freedom and way of life.

We did call off "proofing" the by request wreath placements until another day, as the temps had the bottom drop out at the very end of the event. A few folks did call and complain a wreath they sponsored was not in the right place, but once we explained we would be back out to tweak the placements once it warmed up a little bit, they were cool about the delay (pun intended)

Bottom line is this event was a great demonstration of what a great tool ORM is..... oh, and what a flexible one it is at that. It works equally well for a SAR or a community event. We used the process from the preplanning stages and continuously updated the product up until conclusion of the event. It allowed us to mitigate the issues thrown at us by the wx, and safely accomplish the mission. Of course some concessions were made along the way to ensure things were done safely, but overall it was still an incredible event.

ORM is a great tool. When done correctly, it keeps safety first and still allows you to accomplish the mission where possible.

PS- Oh, yes I should point out that -15 ain't squat to the average North Dakotan  After all, it contributes significantly to keeping our crime rates amung the lowest in the country (oh yes.... and also everyone owns at least one firearm and knows how to use it....)

[Hawk200]

I say if it's in the public's eye and you can't do it safely while being IAW 39-1, don't do it.  On ES missions in the woods, no problem.

Got to agree there.

Ho-hum, I'm sure someone will reply that it's my duty as a Unit commander to clothe every cadet with my own money.  Well, that is exactally what I am doing...not much resources left.

It's not, and you shouldn't be. You need to be kicking some backsides all the way up your chain. As big as Texas is, there should be something available. I know of a couple of wings with fund raising "foundations" (which are not aligned with the wing, they just look into funding from businesses) maybe you could throw that idea out there for them to look at. Money for uniforms is one goal they tend to pursue.

[NHQ-OS-126 Frank]

For the WAA ceremony this year we got the long blue AF coats from the airmans attick on base. It was very cold over here in Luxembourg/Europe too and very windy because the cemetery is located on a plateau in the Ardennes.

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