Curious Question

Lloyd Bumanglag Capt,CAP · September 19, 2008, 11:09:08 PM

A friend of a friend or a friend who's father was in the Civil Air Patrol for a number of years was not entitled to receive a flag at his burial because he did not serve in any branch of the military, or worked for the State, or was in Law Enforcement etc... From what I was told, he was a very patriotic man who always wanted to help his community and his country. By joining CAP he was able to serve his country in missions provided by AFRCC.

I would assume that as a member of CAP-USAF Auxiliary, a committed volunteer who serves his country on missions should be entitled to receive a flag draped over your casket when you die.

Since we've been Charted by Congress and perform missions for the US Air Force, wear the USAF uniform, format our organization in a military fashion etc.... I would think a flag would be a small token, a great thank you for service to CAP, it's members, to it's core values, and to the USAF - what do you think....... Please correct me if I'm wrong if this is not the case.

whatevah · September 19, 2008, 11:48:36 PM

There is no law preventing the use a US flag for a funeral of a non-service member. However, flags are only provided for free to veterans by the Department of Veterans Affairs (by the service branch for active duty personnel).

Yes, it would be nice if flags could be given for free to CAP members, but it's hard to decide where to draw the line, since it's all volunteer and some members do more than others and it's possible to be a member for 5 years and only goto a single meeting.

Lloyd Bumanglag Capt,CAP · September 20, 2008, 12:40:00 AM

I guess your right......CAP could provide some criteria for those that have gone on missions, been active, etc...
Better yet.....Squadrons could develop a program internally, raise money to purchase flags for fallen CAP members (those that have not serviced military duty.)........

FW · September 20, 2008, 12:43:10 AM

Exactly, even though CAP members who are not veterans can't get a flag from the VA, there is no reason why CAP couldn't develop a program or ceremony for CAP "veterans" which would include a flag. Someone should talk to their wing chaplain for ideas.

Eclipse · September 20, 2008, 01:07:55 AM

Having more than a few "seasoned" members who have served their country through CAP for decades, we've discussed this a couple of times. I don't personally see anything specifically wrong with it, and it doesn't appear to be an issue with the flag code, but I could see some more "militant" veterans not being excited about the idea.

Perhaps more appropriate would be to drape the coffin with the CAP flag - same gesture, appropriate to the service, but avoiding any hint of impropriety.

flyguy06 · September 20, 2008, 01:10:25 AM

Well,i have a freind who has taught school for 12 years. He has made a substantial difference in his community. He is a true patriot who has served his country by developing the minds of our youth.

Would he deserve a flag at his funeral?

Eclipse · September 20, 2008, 01:15:46 AM

At first glance I would say "no", the honor is reserved for people in uniformed services, but I wouldn't say it with any level of conviction that would cause an argument.

RiverAux · September 20, 2008, 02:44:20 AM

Its common at police and firefighter funerals even though they belong to local agencies rather than the federal military. Personally, I think it would be a bit much for a CAP funeral unless the member died while actually performing CAP duty and it would even be more justified if it was during an AFAM.

DNall · September 20, 2008, 01:45:59 PM

It's impossible (and more trouble than it's worth) to draw a line of who's in or out on that one. I think died on mission, certainly we should provide certain services to include a flag, but not a full military funeral. Not that I have a problem with a mil funeral under those circumstances, but we're not equipped to provide it.

Other then that, I wouldn't mind seeing an addition to the honor guard reg explaining a CAP (same as military) funeral that can be conducted at the request and expense of the family.

Flying Pig · September 20, 2008, 04:07:45 PM

Quote from: flyguy06 on September 20, 2008, 01:10:25 AM
Well,i have a freind who has taught school for 12 years. He has made a substantial difference in his community. He is a true patriot who has served his country by developing the minds of our youth.

Would he deserve a flag at his funeral?

Anyone can have a flag.......they just dont get a free one.

ColonelJack · September 20, 2008, 08:08:05 PM

Even though as a veteran I'm entitled to one, I've asked that the same flag that was used for my father be used for me. (I have it folded and in a shadow box.)

Jack

wingnut55 · September 21, 2008, 05:10:56 AM

My father served 11 years in both the US Army and US Navy in WW2 and Korea, he Joined CAP in 1950,remained a mission pilot through his death in 1987, we buried him in his Class A CAP uniform, because he loved the CAP, the service to his Country, the flying buddies in CAP.

Sometimes we forget that CAP has a long distinguished record both in combat and as Search and Rescue, Civil Defense, mercy flights. Any member who becomes a member of this organization and wants to have a flag on the Coffin has earned that right, regardless if they have never been in the Military.

DC · September 21, 2008, 02:28:53 PM

We have laid to rest two members of my squadron in the past few years. One was a Navy vet, but both recieved a CAP Honor Guard, a flag, and were buried in their CAP uniforms, all at their request (before they died...).

I think that anyone who served their country or their community in a meaningful way, military, CAP, firefighters, EMS, police, etc should be entitled to a flag.

Lloyd Bumanglag Capt,CAP · September 21, 2008, 03:30:54 PM

Wingnut55 I would have to agree with you. CAP has a long distinguished history record for both in combat and SAR, and the like. A section or clause to the Honor Guard regulation should include allowing a member of CAP who wants to have a flag on his/her coffin should be entitled to have one......

SoCalCAPOfficer · September 21, 2008, 04:10:04 PM

We had to bury one of our long time distinguished members this year. He was buried in full CAP uniform and we attended in ours and he had a flag. This to me is a no brainer. The CAP is the auxillary of the Air Force, we use their rules and traditions, why should we change that when one passes away.

Lloyd Bumanglag Capt,CAP · September 24, 2008, 06:58:21 PM

I know this is a detour of my question....but I stumbled over this old archived article of the women pilots during WWII (WASP) and Civil Air Patrol......it's good reading. Here is an except from the article that coincides with my questions regarding burial flags.

........Since WASP were technically considered volunteer civilian pilots and not Air Force pilots, no monetary compensation was available to the Rawlinson family for her funeral expenses. The other female pilots at Camp Davis pooled their extra money and assisted in the expense of transporting Mabel's casket back to Kalamazoo for burial. There, her casket was draped with an American flag and the Kalamazoo Civil Air Patrol honored her with buglers, fly-overs and solemn gun salutes. .....

** the link to the article is: http://members.aol.com/creasonwings/mabel.htm