Lowering the minimum CAP membership time to participate in CD missions

[RiverAux]

As was brought up in another thread (by me), you have to be in CAP for 2 years before participating in any of the various missions included in the Counterdrug program.  I can see some valid reasons for waiting for two years, but I know our wing is having some issues keeping enough qualified CD crews available to cover our missions.  We're getting it done, but its putting a big toll on a small group of folks.

So, what do you think about dropping the minimum time requirement to 1 year for qualified scanners/observers/pilots?

Potential drawbacks:
1.  We might waste some time processing paperwork for folks who drop out before their 2-year renewal.  But, in my experience if we get them qualified in something, they're not going to drop out that quick.  Its those who start ghosting away after a few months that end up not coming back and I don't see them being a factor here. 

2.  Although its not like the Wing is conducting their own investigation of individuals applying to participate, it would reduce the time we have to get to know them and their reliability before sending in the application.  But, as far as I know, this isn't really a factor in how the applications are evaluated anyway.  As long as they are qualified, have been in 2 years, and pass the background checks they get the CD qual.  So, I don't think this is a big factor. 

3.  Its possible that the 2-year requirement was instituted at a time when we had a lot more CD missions and a lot more pilots and aircrew and it was just used as a bar to somewhat restrict participation to the good old boys.  I'm not in favor of reducing the participant pool just on general principles, so I don't think this is valid either. 

[mikeylikey]

Is there a firm stated reason why a member has to wait 2 years??

[RiverAux]

Not that I'm aware of, hence my speculation on the matter.  I also suspect that its been this way since the CD program started in the 80s, so we'll probably not be able to get a definite answer on that topic. 

[PHall]

IIRC, the 2 year wait is a requirement from the agency that does the screenings.

They don't want the drug guys infiltrating the CD mission crews.

And yes, this particular agency is known for being paranoid....

[RiverAux]

Sure, but how does making them wait 2 years make a difference.  The background check is still going to show the same stuff (or lack of stuff).  I can't believe that there are any but a tiny percentage of CAP members who get busted for stuff that would disqualify them from CD in their first two years of membership. 

[MIKE]

Making someone have two years consecutive membership before applying seems good to me.  It's a test of commitment to CAP before you put 'em through the wringer... Why go through the trouble to qualify someone who hasn't shown a commitment and may be more likely to volunteer to leave.

It would also give you an opportunity to observe a possible applicant in a CAP setting to determine suitability.

[RiverAux]

It would also give you an opportunity to observe a possible applicant in a CAP setting to determine suitability.

Theoretically, yes, but in practicality this isn't part of the CD qualification process now.  Remember, the CD application doesn't require squadron or group commander approval -- the only person from the wing who sees it is the CD Officer and Wing Commander.  I would say that the probability of those two people even meeting new CD applicants is low, even in a small state.  In a large state they won't know CD applicants from adam. 

[Frenchie]

It would also give you an opportunity to observe a possible applicant in a CAP setting to determine suitability.

Theoretically, yes, but in practicality this isn't part of the CD qualification process now.  Remember, the CD application doesn't require squadron or group commander approval -- the only person from the wing who sees it is the CD Officer and Wing Commander.  I would say that the probability of those two people even meeting new CD applicants is low, even in a small state.  In a large state they won't know CD applicants from adam. 

It depends on the wing king really.  I would certainly consider Texas a big state and I've seen our wing king show up at more than one Sarex to meet the membership, and he's only been in the job a year or so.

[RiverAux]

I think a person would have to be a very major headcase in order to come to the attention of the CDO or Wing CC such that their application would be turned down.

Keep in mind that this would also be somebody that we've already said was qualified to do the ES job.  I can't imagine us giving a Mission Pilot rating to somebody who was so nuts or unreliable that we wouldn't recommend them for the CD mission. 

[Flying Pig]

It a requirement set by the customer.  The 2 year requirement isnt a CAP rule.  I can assure you federal law enforcement isnt going to lower the time requirement.  They want some small indicator that people have shown they are committed to the program.  I think the 2 year rule is a good idea.  It isnt that unreasonable considering they allow your cadet time to count for the 2 years provided you were a cadet.
With the CD program we do a lot of sensitive work on occassion and do provide some intelligence gathering.  If you are doing marijuana site recon, and you were a dirtbag, you could cause some serious problems.  The 2 year requirement is a good time frame to make it somewhat impractical for someone trying to infiltrate the program.  Its not a fail-safe, but its reasonable.  We are looking for quality, not quantity.

In my unit, only the CD qualified members discuss CD, and then, only the ones involved in that particular mission discuss it.  I was impressed to see how serious the members take OPSEC regarding CD.  You see a lot of stuff and hear a lot of information that could potentialy risk peoples lives.  My life being one of them.  If you cant stick it out for 2 years, I say good-bye.  It will only take one person to screw it up for everyone.

[mikeylikey]

2 years is not a long time.  I think it is a good indicator if the person is going to stick around for a few more years. 

I believe 2 years is about the time a member will either leave CAP after joining, or decide to stay in.

However, I think there should be some minimum commitment from the member, as in during those two years he or she flew so many hours, attended so many hours of SQD meetings or did outside SQD activities.  Too often we have a member join just to fly, we never see them at a unit meeting, and they only show up for missions etc.

 

[Flying Pig]

We recently had an article in our local paper about our Sq., CAP and its missions.  CD was mentioned vaguely.  So far all of the calls I have received from interested people pretty much start out with "How long until I get to fly." Fair question from a layman.   I begin by explaining the Senior Program and Specialty tracks.  I try not to make it to boring at first.  I explain that they need to think about skills they possess that will help the Sq.  Finance, Admin, Computers, ability to operate a floor buffer, etc.  And oh by the way, you will be asked to participate with the cadets and maybe teach a class about aviation from time to time.  Oh really?"  has been the standard answer.  "What about flying the border?".  You have to be in CAP 2 years before your eligible I say.  Not quite as blunt as I typed, but thats the gist of it.  I did tell one guy however, based on the way I saw the conversation going, "If you think we are going to toss you the keys to the plane while the rest of us run the Sq. your sadly mistaken."

We have had a few pilots come in very interested.  We try to ease them in without scaring them away to soon.  But the time comes when you have to sit them down and get them started on Level 1, CPPT, a Specialty Track and find them a job to do in the unit.  Then you start telling them about getting ready for the Form 5, then print out and hand them the Form 91 requirements.   Without fail you see a few of them swallow real hard and see their eyes get a little bigger.  Sure enough, one or two suddenly cant make the meetings anymore but want you to be sure to call them if something comes up.

Standardized training.  I can take off out of Fresno on a search, land in Auburn to pick up my Observer then fly to Redding to get my Scanner.  We can all talk over a soda for a few minutes and then launch on the mission and everyone performs their duties as trained. Unless someone comes in and just hits CAP every weekend, and fully submerges themselves in the CAP culture, that isnt going to happen in less than two years as an aircrew. A pilot, observer or scanner needs to understand CAP and how we operate and fit into the grand scheme of life before you run out and start representing us to "paying" customers. Why do I mention all of this?  CD/Border Patrol is probably one of the more challenging missions we fly.  You are often either completely by yourself as single pilot crew with a LE observer and scanner, flying very close to other aircraft, or completely by yourself in an area with no Mission Base, no Base Staff etc.  It often requires skills beyond just finishing up your Form 5 and your Form 91.  Many LE officers ether have no experience in the air, or 180 degrees, have A LOT of experience flying and they will know if you know what you are doing. 

In doing CD/Border Ops, I want CAP represented by pilots with experience flying the way CAP flies.  ELT;s, Searches, Mountain Flying, etc.  And, I want people who are committed to CAP.  If a member is serious, they will find plenty to do while they wait.

[Fifinella]

I think it's a bit odd that active military with security clearances can do CD right away, but former military with security clearances have to wait 2 years.

[mikeylikey]

I think it's a bit odd that active military with security clearances can do CD right away, but former military with security clearances have to wait 2 years.

You have been out of the military and away from their justice system if you are out.  It is very reasonable. 

[bosshawk]

May I politely point out that a security clearance in either the military or in the intelligence community has absolutely nothing to do with the screening that takes place for participation in the CD program.  I, for one, held just about every compartmented clearance that the US Government had at the time and I still had to go through the CD screening.
\
Notice that I said "SCREENING": what happens in the CD process is not a clearance, will never be a clearance.  It is a Law Enforcement screening.

Several of the posters have correctly pointed out that the two year requirement is imposed on us by our customers.  Apparently, they feel that if a CAP member has been in the organization for two years, they have demonstrated a willingness to adhere to the rules of the organization.  That two years also gives those in positions of responsibility in CAP to evaluate the members suitability to move into the CD program. 

As a Wing CDO, I can assure you that there are folks who are not accepted: either by CAP or by our customers.  Like most of the rest of CAP, this is not a democratic process.  If you are not approved, you have no recourse and you get no explanation as to why you were not accepted.  As a matter of fact, I am not told the reason a member is not approved.

Just for the record, I run a program that has around 400 people in it.

[mikeylikey]

^ Wow not saying why a person was not approved seems wrong.  Mistakes happen all the time especially with the number of apps that go past one persons desk (If I am not mistaken).  Even when a person blows a DoD or National Agency Check it always comes back with a denial code.

My first secret clearance check came back denied 12 years ago because the check found someone had been using my Social Security Number to get credit and multiple defaults even when I had no credit cards myself.  The Army actually pushed the matter to the FBI for me.  The guy was busted, I got my clearance and Commissioned.  Couldn't the same be true for CD CHECKS??  It happens all the time at the Airports as well.  You might have the same name as a known terrorist or undesirable and you get "extra screened and probed"!!

I am just trying to say our justice and legal tracking system is not perfect, who knows what incorrect crap some CLERK mistakenly put in your State Police Record.  You could be a murderer and not even know it. 

     

[RiverAux]

I suspect it is because the whole CAP CD program is such a low priority for them (not saying that it shouldn't be) that they don't want to spend any time arguing over why someone got denied.  Easier to just say, tough luck and move on to the next application. 

[genejackson]

I echo Lt Col Reed's statements here as the VAWG CD Officer.   The 2 year rule is non-negotiable.   Our screenings by the DEA are time consuming and final.  Non-select is exactly that, non-select and there is no recourse.

I personally screen every person and every CD application that comes to me, and no, I don't send every one to NHQ.   The Wing CC and I discuss every application and some get signed, some don't.   Our program is one of selectivity given the significant number of CD missions that occur and the sensitive nature of same.   People who can't complete paperwork correctly, fly to standards, be true professionals all the time, etc. are non-select.   Our paperwork is discoverable evidence in a court of law so it must be letter perfect and complete.

I don't have the 400 people like Lt Col Reed, but I have had a 300% increase in my numbers since I took the program over 2 years ago and we have a very strong and active CD program in our Wing.   Our CD members are also our HLS members who fly the Fertile Spade, Fertile Keynote, Falcon mission with the F-16's.   And that's where the fun really begins.   We know they can walk the walk and talk the talk in terms of these exciting missions and can keep it all quiet at the same time (OPSEC).

If you're not in the CD program for CAP, you just might be missing some extremely exciting and rewarding flying.   Because of my dual hats as CD and HLS for the Wing, I had 370 hrs last year PIC for CAP and it just keeps getting better.   In July, I flew 52 hours for CAP so if you really want to fly for CAP,  you just might want to go talk to your Wing CD officer and see if you have what it takes to be a member of a select team.

Gene Jackson, Lt Col, CAP
VAWG CD
COL (R) US ARMY

[bosshawk]

Thanks, Gene.  If anyone out there believes that CAP is a democracy, they are sadly mistaken.  Those who are in the RM or those who have been in the RM know very well that democracy isn't alive and well in the military. 

[mikeylikey]

People who can't complete paperwork correctly, fly to standards, be true professionals all the time, etc. are non-select.   Our paperwork is discoverable evidence in a court of law so it must be letter perfect and complete.

Sir, you can tell all that (especially the "true professional") from the application?  Can you give some very specific reasons for denial??  I can see denial if the application were completed in pink crayon, but wow.